The 90Q (07k?)

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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby highlander69 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:06 pm

Looking awesome !!

You've got me thinking now regarding the Isam oil filter housing, as I'm using one also.

I'm hoping to keep my radiator in the stock location with a slight tilt also.

I was planning on doing the Sport quattro chassis leg modification anyways, so hopefully enough room for the radiator.

:beer: nice welding also.

Cheers
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:50 pm

I think Ive got it figured out what I’m going to do with the cooling pipes .
For now I’m going to reuse the stock plastic thermostat housing mess and the plastic piece off the back of the head too
. There are universal billet filter housings on the market but I don’t want to reinvent the wheel if I don’t have to.
First piece is kind of self explanatory .
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Now for the head outlet to the radiator / expansion tank , I don’t think I want to make that until I get the heater core supply and return done since it will be real close .

So heater core outlet I’m using this piece repurposed , I had to cut and flip a few things but this way it retains the o-ring Seal at the thermostat housing . It looks ugly but when it’s painted and intake manifold is over I don’t think it will be too bad .
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At the back of the head . I can use the large ~1.25” outlet to go to the radiator and the expansion tank and then the issue is the smaller 1” fitting is exactly in the wrong direction. I don’t want to make a big loop there so I decided on two options . Either cap it off , or do as tight of a bend as possible . I think possibly reusing this stock hose will get me there , but I’ll have to reduce it down with like a barbed fitting .
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So for the other cooling pipe head outlet to radiator , I may have to decide which route is going to be less in the way . I’m thinking option 1 (below)
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Option 2
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That’s it for now. hopefully soon I’ll do the heater core in and the remaining cooling pipe , finish the turbo outlet to IC and move on
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:20 pm

highlander69 wrote:Looking awesome !!

You've got me thinking now regarding the Isam oil filter housing, as I'm using one also.

I'm hoping to keep my radiator in the stock location with a slight tilt also.

I was planning on doing the Sport quattro chassis leg modification anyways, so hopefully enough room for the radiator.

:beer: nice welding also.

Cheers

I’m not sure if the Iabed block is the biggest hinderance to the radiator or if it’s actually the alternator .
If the alternator wasn’t in the way , and I moved the radiator just slightly forward I would actually be able to clear an large oil filter there as is. I mean I haven’t tried but I bet I could almost fit a stock 10v filter with my radiator there .
But from doing the test fitting these are the 3 best options I see .
1) tilt the rad like I have and get the biggest possible core , it still won’t be able to fit super thick because of the alternator
2) move the alternator , but that requires reworking the serpentine belt and if I was gonna do that , I would go all out and do electric water pump and electric Ps too.
3) front mount the radiator and put the intercooler in front or below .


FWIW this is the thickness of the remote filter adapter , just under 2” . I know it’s really hard to figure out fitment related questions from pics though Image
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby dana » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:12 am

Wow Pat, that piping work all around is looking really good. Damn small chassis and radiator fitment, its always the thorn in the side.
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:43 am

dana wrote:Wow Pat, that piping work all around is looking really good. Damn small chassis and radiator fitment, its always the thorn in the side.

I know man! but with the 07K the amount of room is a considerable difference so there are ways around it I think, we'll see how this works but If not i can reinvent some things.

Damn inline engines.. but we all know inline is superior !
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby audifreakjim » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:20 am

Hey Pat, It will probably be fine, but you typically want coolant to flow from the top to bottom of the radiator. This will still create a little flow through the system if the pump fails or you toss a belt. But the water pump will also be fighting the natural forces of the coolant wanting to sink in the radiator as it cools.

Looks really good though!
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:42 pm

audifreakjim wrote:Hey Pat, It will probably be fine, but you typically want coolant to flow from the top to bottom of the radiator. This will still create a little flow through the system if the pump fails or you toss a belt. But the water pump will also be fighting the natural forces of the coolant wanting to sink in the radiator as it cools.

Looks really good though!

lolll
you're right. I went all "old I-5" on it and made it like my URQ. I forgot the flow is out of the head to top of rad on those on a 20vt to the top of the rad . this is why its not good for me to work alone.
It's OK though, because if cut that pipe, make it right, I can still re-use the bends and switch it around and I think it will be easier to get the piping into the bottom of the rad. it will look better too.
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:47 pm

OK heres the cooling pipe remade. I'll have to deal with the chance that I may have some issues with getting the brake lines routed or some other clearance issue, but I think I need to remake the fronts anyways due to deleting the ABS. so need to find a master cyl. I think it will leave me enough room for a decent fan and shroud.
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I was going to tee off this line between the head outlet and the top of the radiator, ad add a Y off of it to the expansion tank. However now I'm wondering if I should do that or just run a silicone line from the expansion tank direct and weld a nipple right on to the radiator. Not sure if it makes a difference.

I added an ell on to the bottom of the rad. also so I can get a line from there to the thermostat. which I will do next. I only have 3 bends left so one chance.
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby highlander69 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:47 pm

Looking great !!

Thanks for the measurement of the oil filter adapter.

Following with interest.

Great work :beer:
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:42 pm

And the pipe for the other side ..
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So now that I’m done with that....
I’m wondering why I didn’t just move the inlet on the top of the radiator to the other side ? Hmm

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Edit: Never mind on that .
Fixed it . On rev. 2 of the top pipe and pretty happy with it now . I also removed the cap from the radiator as I don’t need 2 caps .
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So the radiator is nearing complete , I just need a weld nipple for the bottom approx 3/4” to be able to connect a line from the expansion tank to bottom of radiator and then find a suitable silicone hose .
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby highlander69 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:02 pm

Funny you mentioned moving the upper rad hose location. I also thought that, but didn't want to be "that guy" as anytime
fabrication and packaging decisions need to be made it's not easy or practical in some cases.

Looks way better. :beer: :thumbsup:

I'm really enjoying the 07k builds right now on the Pad.

Keep up the great work!!
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby audifreakjim » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:43 pm

Fantastic, it almost looks ready to run!
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:42 am

highlander69 wrote:Funny you mentioned moving the upper rad hose location. I also thought that, but didn't want to be "that guy" as anytime
fabrication and packaging decisions need to be made it's not easy or practical in some cases.

Looks way better. :beer: :thumbsup:

I'm really enjoying the 07k builds right now on the Pad.

Keep up the great work!!


It’s always useful to hear others opinions on how things can be improved or done better .
I think it was two part problem but mainly me not thinking it through which is common as any chance I get to go to the shop I get excited to start building things immediately .

Initially I had planned to run that pipe over next to the expansion tank , so I could run a Y off it and go to the expansion tank . Later after looking into it, I thought that I should run the main line from the expansion tank to the bottom of the radiator instead so I should have changed my plan at that time . now for sure with the mods I’ve done to the radiator if I need or decide to get a larger core I will be certain exactly what I can fit and where I need things.

audifreakjim wrote:Fantastic, it almost looks ready to run!

It’s coming together ... missing quite a few things still but I’m trying to get the bigger time consuming stuff out of the way so I can do the small things one task at a time . for example though, The engine is really just sitting in there - larger item I need to tackle is that I still haven’t hooked anything up on the trans . The linkage I haven’t addressed in the car , need to put in the right driveline , change the rear diff I think to 4.11 , Jimolde got me some urs hubs he is going to send me ... then I will have to start looking at the whole 5 lug swap nonsense as far as axles , cups and what not . Wiring is apart dash is out . I need to pull the AC stuff .
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:47 am

I did remake the coolant line for the supply side to the heater core so It looks like this stock plastic piece on the back of the head will work out almost perfect , aside from the u-bend needed .
I used just got a hardware store barbed fitting and one of the stock hoses from the engine . The way I made the pipe I can route it either above or below the plastic thing in case I need room one side or the other

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I think I’ve squeezed all the use out of that stock metal cooling pipe that I can .
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm

I’m going to try and tackle some of the hub swap stuff . My favorite .
I’ve sourced the hubs. I don’t have wheel bearings yet as I wasn’t sure what to order . Same with the brakes . So I’m going to pull everything apart and clean it . Then I guess where to start is to measure the old wheel bearings and the hub OD and see if I can just use stock B3 wheel bearings or what

What I’ll be using is urs4/s6 front hubs and b5 rear hubs
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I’m thinking there are 3 things I need to address all at the same time . Or 4 . Hubs , brakes , suspension , wheels .

In the suspension category it sure seems like the KW suspension is the easiest route but I have no idea the spring rates that it comes with and I don’t want something too soft. For reference in the URQ which is lighter by quite a bit I am running ~400 lb spring rate with konis set pretty stiff and it’s soft if anything with lots of body roll. Now this car has a small rear sway bar and more weight , anyway I do want to figure out how to get it set up well. I could do KW V3 or custom build my own Koni setup

On the brakes I’m thinking the options would be 17z carriers and calipers for the front or boxter non-s I think it was that I ran once with apikol carrier brackets .
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby PRY4SNO » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:36 pm

I used stock b3 bearings (IIRC) with c4+b5 hubs.

I'd attribute body roll more to the sway bar than the spring rate. V3 are stiffer than v1 and have more adjustability to boot. You can slightly customize rates/settings when you order them from KW.

I used the RS2 Apikol bracket with BoxsterS calipers but had to shim about 4mm to fit. Pretty sure I ordered the wrong caliper bracket by accident. Used the 323x30 D2 rotors and 5mm spacers. To do that over again I'd go for 17z -- cheaper and more/still available. Or just go full baller with Alcons and two piece rotors.
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby DE80q » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:21 am

Ok, as this project has changed a couple of times, which car are you working on? If it the CQ, it will have 82mm bearings up front, and 75mm Bearings in the rear. If it's the 90, it could be 82 or 75 up front, depending on if it started as a 10v or 20v. Sorry, I don't remember, and did t really have time to look through the thread to find out. There were some odd very early 90 20v cars that had 75mm bearing up front with the single piston calipers.

As for what bearing to order, order them for the vehicle the hubs came from. This way you know the ID is correct for the hubs themselves. So B5 for the rear, and C4 for the front.

As for the breaks, I know around here(PA) I wouldn't want to run anything bigger than a 16" wheel, as the roads are total crap. Even with the 215/45/16 tires I'm running, I'm afraid I'm going to bend a wheel. So I went for the updated calipers, as they should fit under my 16" wheels.
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:14 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:I used stock b3 bearings (IIRC) with c4+b5 hubs.

I'd attribute body roll more to the sway bar than the spring rate. V3 are stiffer than v1 and have more adjustability to boot. You can slightly customize rates/settings when you order them from KW.

I used the RS2 Apikol bracket with BoxsterS calipers but had to shim about 4mm to fit. Pretty sure I ordered the wrong caliper bracket by accident. Used the 323x30 D2 rotors and 5mm spacers. To do that over again I'd go for 17z -- cheaper and more/still available. Or just go full baller with Alcons and two piece rotors.

I was planning to figure out a good setup for the rear sway on URQ sometime.
On the brakes, I agree it seems like 17z is an easy and affordable option if I get the carrier brackets from Verkline and the calipers are on ebay for around 280$.
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Re: The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:30 pm

DE80q wrote:Ok, as this project has changed a couple of times, which car are you working on? If it the CQ, it will have 82mm bearings up front, and 75mm Bearings in the rear. If it's the 90, it could be 82 or 75 up front, depending on if it started as a 10v or 20v. Sorry, I don't remember, and did t really have time to look through the thread to find out. There were some odd very early 90 20v cars that had 75mm bearing up front with the single piston calipers.

As for what bearing to order, order them for the vehicle the hubs came from. This way you know the ID is correct for the hubs themselves. So B5 for the rear, and C4 for the front.

As for the breaks, I know around here(PA) I wouldn't want to run anything bigger than a 16" wheel, as the roads are total crap. Even with the 215/45/16 tires I'm running, I'm afraid I'm going to bend a wheel. So I went for the updated calipers, as they should fit under my 16" wheels.


Yeah you're right... It's changed shape a few times. Its all 90Q 20v parts.
Long story short, It started as I was just looking for any good body as a test lab to swap the engine into and get it figured out, get all the hub swap and 01E bullshit sorted.
Now the CQ became available up and my buddy was sure it needed a new engine, after getting it from him I found that the timing belt just needed to be adjusted and got it running and driving with minimal effort, he asked if I sold it that he would want it back. So at that time the 90 popped up on Craigslist and since it makes no difference to me I grabbed it and said If you want your CQ back, get it now before I put all this extra time and effort into it. So I gave him the CQ and took apart the 90 instead.
Initially I had planned to test this engine out and swap it into my widebody URQ but that car needs so much work to be done right I cant honestly say when it will ever be done. So I made sure to pick a car to test the engine in that if it works out well and I like it that I can just leave it as is and be perfectly content.
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:39 pm

Partial update on the hub & brakery
Thanks to Jimolde/Force5 I have (I think ) all the parts I need .

I have the bearings sorted out . So I used basically the same set up as most have I think

Front :
Machined URS6 hubs
URS4/S6 wheel bearing (82mm OD 43mm/45mm ID)

Rear:
B5 A4 hubs
90Q 20v wheel bearings (75mm OD, 39mm/41mm ID)

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It will work but will
Require small shims it looks like unless I remake the carrier to be perfect

Rear brakes to come
Last edited by Afterthought on Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The 90Q (07k?)

Postby Afterthought » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:40 pm

Duplicate
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