Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Do It Yourself!

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby my2000apb » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:28 am

DE80q wrote:I picked up a setup for my B3, somone else has already done all the work. The problem is, they are coming with springs suited to a track/drag car. 700/800 spring rate. What would be a good spring rate for a daily driven 80q? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a firm ride, but would like to keep the teeth I have left in my mouth...



id say 350 all around
my2000apb
 
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mar 1, 2013
Location: new england

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby All_Euro » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:07 pm

More rate in the back helps turn in response and will allow your car settle (front to back) over bumps at the same time... not sure what the right combo for the 80 is though.
Work - Houzz / linkedin
Play - Haldex Swap
User avatar
All_Euro
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
Location: Calgary, Alberta

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby DE80q » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:11 am

I have read on other's projects all kinds of different combo's used. It looks like the 2B kit uses 350 on all 4 corners as Tim mentioned. I remember seeing somewhere on MG that someone was useing F380/R400. I dont have the equipment to measure corner weights, so cant really go through and do the measurements.

I was thining F350/R375 should be quite liveable and handle well, with the 10vt and all the heavy pieces attached to it up front.

thought?
"If you cant find one, make one!"


91 Audi 80q -10vt project
07 Mitsubishi Raider (Dakota in disguise)
DE80q
 
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mar 4, 2013
Location: York PA 17403

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Colin2750 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:17 pm

I'm 400 front 450 rear, KW v1s, front swaybar on front and rear with a rear strut bar and a torsen rear diff. Handles like a champ. Will come out on me if hard on the brakes, could slide it nicely with more power and/or wet surface. :drive:

Basically what I'm saying is DO STIFFER IN THE REAR. I used to have 360 in the rear and it was understeer city.
Colin2750
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Feb 28, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby pilihp2 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:31 pm

Stiffer in rear. Do it. Never do stiffer in front, unless you want a boring ride.
-Phil
87 5ktq - 20vt
05 S4 - "Daily"
16 KTM 690 Duke - just because

-Terrible at responding to PM's
User avatar
pilihp2
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Mar 1, 2013
Location: Reno, Nv

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby scubagli » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:53 am

scubagli wrote:Does anyone know what effect turning the steering arms in will have on a street car? The first set of coils I built I have to run 20mm spacers to get a stock wheel to fit on the 4k...


Old and grumpy.

Anyone? It seems like it would make a really big difference on the outer wheel.


Old and grumpy.
User avatar
scubagli
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
Location: leeds ny

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby DE80q » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:41 am

From reading over this thread, and its sister over on MG, seems that a lot of people are having a problem with the springs rubbing the strut nuts. The setup I snagged is no different. Is there any reason that we are stuck using the 2.5" ID spings, and cant go up to a slightly larger in diameter spring? Would there be somthing in the way?
"If you cant find one, make one!"


91 Audi 80q -10vt project
07 Mitsubishi Raider (Dakota in disguise)
DE80q
 
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mar 4, 2013
Location: York PA 17403

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Colin2750 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:58 pm

DE80q wrote:From reading over this thread, and its sister over on MG, seems that a lot of people are having a problem with the springs rubbing the strut nuts. The setup I snagged is no different. Is there any reason that we are stuck using the 2.5" ID spings, and cant go up to a slightly larger in diameter spring? Would there be somthing in the way?


I don't see why not, the stock spring is much bigger.
Colin2750
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Feb 28, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:53 pm

the kicker there is you need the appropriate sized lower perch for the right sized sleeves. i dunno if there is one. but to use a larger spring the perch needs to be correct.

someone else can do the footwork on that, my springs dont rub my nuts, i dont know what you guys are doing wrong.

and if mine did rub my nuts, i would take that little edge on the strut nut down with a grinder and call it good. its just a casting flash anyhow.
User avatar
speeding-g60
 
Posts: 2121
Joined: Mar 1, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby mr_aj_johnson » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:54 pm

Personally I'd go with 300-350 range and send some HD's back to bilstein for a revalve. $70 per tube, their motorsports guys might have some good info on valve rates. Koni's would be just fine as well.
mr_aj_johnson
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Apr 22, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby SEStone » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:18 am

My adjusters are seized so I'm going to be replacing them soon. I went with the A1 Racing parts here, including the set screws to lock the collars in place. The set screws seem to have damaged the sleeve threads, so all the adjusters are basically immobile.

To prevent this, I'd like to go with a lock/jam nut type of setup next time. These A1 parts are the only ones I've found with these big blocky threads, so I was thinking of just buying two perches per corner and running the second upside down to jam against the real spring perch. I have enough adjustment range that I think the extra thickness will not be a problem.

Thoughts?

Sam
Sam Stone
((\/)) Evolution Motorsports
SEStone
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Location: Tempe, AZ

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:18 am

that seems to be the way many companies do it.
User avatar
speeding-g60
 
Posts: 2121
Joined: Mar 1, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby pilihp2 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:13 am

The set screws on mine damaged my threads as well as seized and stripped on the fronts. I had to drill mine out. What a bitch.
Definitely like your idea Sam.
-Phil
87 5ktq - 20vt
05 S4 - "Daily"
16 KTM 690 Duke - just because

-Terrible at responding to PM's
User avatar
pilihp2
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Mar 1, 2013
Location: Reno, Nv

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby ringbearer » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:13 am

I agree with this idea. My Koni sleeve and perch set came with nylon tipped set screws but the jam nut solution is better in the long run.
User avatar
ringbearer
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Location: Nor-Cal

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Wheeljack » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:15 am

Agree that the A1 set screw is a poor design for these. I used a few dabs of silicone to keep mine in place, but that only works because I tend to 'set it and forget it' for my uses.

The other option is like Ground Control which uses a split ring design which can be clamped with a screw. Even with these, care must be taken to keep the screw from seizing over time, but still better than the set screw design.

I think I like the jam nut approach best though. It would be nice to have a better option than running two perches back to back though. The threads are probably ACME and some other manufacturers may have compatible parts, or possibly a full setup alternative to the A1 stuff.
The Projects: eS2 Coupe /// ur quattro /// urS4 /// Diesel Vanagon
Image
http://brydon-eng.com
User avatar
Wheeljack
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Location: Ute Territory

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Zaworek » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:45 pm

Im finally back on working on my coupes after a longer break and instantly runned in into little problem and wanted to ask for some wisdom from You guys. I have the coupe uprights and bought the sleeves from a1 and they dont fit on my up rights. They are tiny bit smaller. The question is should i look for another sleeves or maybe i could use urs4/6 up rights and built the coilover using them for the coupe. The coupe will get wide body later and i think using the urs4/6 up rights F/R would make it easier with custom lower control arms to offset the diffrence. Please let me know your opinion.
- Sebastian -

- free your mind, go have a boost -
91 Audi Coupe Quattro Red 3b swap - Vems - e85
User avatar
Zaworek
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
Location: New York

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby DE80q » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:56 pm

To get the sleeves to fit you will need to grind down the housing some. I have done this on many uprights with no ill effects.

As for the UrS uprights, I have no idea.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


91 Audi 80q -10vt project
07 Mitsubishi Raider (Dakota in disguise)
DE80q
 
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mar 4, 2013
Location: York PA 17403

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:22 pm

take the paint off the housings.....
User avatar
speeding-g60
 
Posts: 2121
Joined: Mar 1, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby A1QSHIP » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:35 pm

scubagli wrote:Does anyone know what effect turning the steering arms in will have on a street car? The first set of coils I built I have to run 20mm spacers to get a stock wheel to fit on the 4k...
Old and grumpy.


Turning the steering arms inward or outward will affect what is known as the Ackerman Angle. Even raising or lowering the arm can have an effect on Ackerman Angle. Essentially, this is the angle that the wheels take when a vehicle is in a turn. Here is a youtube video that gives a basic understanding of Ackerman Angle. This guy has other useful videos posted as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYMMdjbmQXc
There are other videos that are linked to the above that give more information but the above is a good start.

If you are really studious I can recommend a book titled "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics", by Bill & Doug Milliken.
http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvd.html
Ackerman Angle takes in to account vehicle wheelbase, steering rack position & type, steering link length, steering arm length & angle inwards/outwards from the centerline of the vehicle. Also considered is the range of motion that the steering arm takes as the suspension moves thru its range of travel.
I used the information in "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics & took measurements to determine on a C4 chassis that the Audi engineers knew what they were doing when they set position of the steering rack & the angle for the steering arms on my UrS6. It was very close to what the Milliken's thought was ideal for a street vehicle.

On a vehicle meant for a road race course or if you are trying to improve a situation involving front tires scrubbing in a turn there may be benefits to moving the steering arm position.
For a drag car keeping the front wheel toe measurement close to zero as the front of the vehicle moves upwards & downwards would be the ideal. I helped a friend align his drag car (Nova) & then had him take pictures of the car as it moved down the track. We then realigned his car with the front of the vehicle raised to where it trended to be during the course of a run.
HTH, Chris
Nulla tenaci invia est via
User avatar
A1QSHIP
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Jul 4, 2013
Location: Lexington, KY

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:39 pm

A1QSHIP wrote:For a drag car keeping the front wheel toe measurement close to zero as the front of the vehicle moves upwards & downwards would be the ideal. I helped a friend align his drag car (Nova) & then had him take pictures of the car as it moved down the track. We then realigned his car with the front of the vehicle raised to where it trended to be during the course of a run.
HTH, Chris


this, is how i have my awd drag car aligned. me in it, and ~1" lifted in front to simulate how it actually drives down the track.
User avatar
speeding-g60
 
Posts: 2121
Joined: Mar 1, 2013

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby A1QSHIP » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:32 am

FWIW, Messaged Albert @ AKmotorsport about the steering arm position on KW suspension front struts for the B3/B4 chassis. He replied that the dimensions were the same as stock. Without having the front struts side by side..... :idunno:
Nulla tenaci invia est via
User avatar
A1QSHIP
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Jul 4, 2013
Location: Lexington, KY

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby pilihp2 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:52 am

A1QSHIP wrote:FWIW, Messaged Albert @ AKmotorsport about the steering arm position on KW suspension front struts for the B3/B4 chassis. He replied that the dimensions were the same as stock. Without having the front struts side by side..... :idunno:


Albert makes some cool stuff, but he isn't super helpful when you have questions.... :idunno:
-Phil
87 5ktq - 20vt
05 S4 - "Daily"
16 KTM 690 Duke - just because

-Terrible at responding to PM's
User avatar
pilihp2
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Mar 1, 2013
Location: Reno, Nv

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Zaworek » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:53 pm

The sleeves won't pass the treaded area on the housings. Would have to take bit there which I don't think is good idea will post pictures when I get home.

Also I see you guys talk about kw's
Cam I still get a set for the coupe in US ?

speeding-g60 wrote:take the paint off the housings.....
- Sebastian -

- free your mind, go have a boost -
91 Audi Coupe Quattro Red 3b swap - Vems - e85
User avatar
Zaworek
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
Location: New York

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby DE80q » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:41 pm

The sleeves should easily pass the threads. Check to see what the inside of the sleeve measures. It should be right around 2.170" iirc.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


91 Audi 80q -10vt project
07 Mitsubishi Raider (Dakota in disguise)
DE80q
 
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mar 4, 2013
Location: York PA 17403

Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Zaworek » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:16 pm

Will check and post my results

DE80q wrote:The sleeves should easily pass the threads. Check to see what the inside of the sleeve measures. It should be right around 2.170" iirc.
- Sebastian -

- free your mind, go have a boost -
91 Audi Coupe Quattro Red 3b swap - Vems - e85
User avatar
Zaworek
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
Location: New York

PreviousNext

Return to DIY Write-ups

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest