Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

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Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:02 pm

so i am making some more coilovers, but these have a different twist. they are also going to be rotating the steering arm inwards and away from the tire, much like KW does.

starting with some old housings.

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cut off arm and cup for the spring

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grind up body

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and two strut housings await the spring perch/steering arm plates being made by Chris@Nubworks.

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:08 pm

and i copied the opening page from my DIY on MG..... same stuff applies for parts, etc.

speeding-g60 wrote:So i have been getting many many questions about the coilovers i made, such as part numbers, where, what style, etc. i do not mind answering these questions for everyone, but maybe if i put down the EXACT part numbers i used here, everyone will know them. please, these are the only ones i have any experience with. while i truly do not mind helping out, this is what i did and it worked out for me. so i do not know about the other cars, etc, as i have no idea with them.

this should be stickied, as well. from what i understand, this method is roughly the same cost as a GC kit. you still have to weld on the rings with GC as well. but i like self-made stuff, a sense of "ownership" and accomplishment comes with doing it yourself.

the sleeves, perches, and tops i got from http://www.a1racing.com and the car i did was 1990 Coupe Quattro. i have done 90Q and also B3 80Q as well. they have a 55mm OD strut tube.

this is the tops i used: http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12470.aspx

this is the sleeves i used: http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12452-h.aspx

this is the perch i used: http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12460.aspx

dont forget the set screws for the perch: http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12485.aspx

next, being on a budget (sort of: this is funny if you know my project haha) i went to http://www.Summitracing.com for springs. QA1 is really inexpensive for springs, in some lengths and rates. i did 7" up front, but you will probably want to go 6" as mine does not go really low. and i went 8" in the back.

the front sleeves you need to cut down to fit onto the housing, they are long. the rears are fine as shipped.

i made a set of the rings that i had to weld to the tubes for the sleeves to sit on. i used a standard holesaw, and drill. the ID i made 54mm and cleaned it up with a die-grinder. the OD i made 76mm.

my spring rates are not for you, i can almost guarantee it. but i went 7" x 650 lb front and 8" x 900 lb rear. i have quite a bit of input from others here on what they used, but a general idea is 6" front and 8" rear. the rates is up to you, but most use 350-400 lb all round. mine may be just right for me as i do not run a 5cyl in the car, a lighter 4cyl is in there. i guess it really depends on your use, but mine is drag race only. period. ever.

when you weld the ring to the strut tube, it needs to be perfectly flat. and i only welded the bottom, so i did not have any obstruction in the way of the sleeve. the purpose is so that the sleeve has as much support as possible. no ring for the sleeve can lead to the sleeve splitting out on the weld of the old perch if it is not removed completely. remember this holds the whole weight of the suspension of the car on it.

i took a grinder, and wiped out the factory perches. set up my new rings, and welded them up.

here are some pictures. this should be all you need to get this job done.

the strut housing without the OEM perch.

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the parts used. i also did all the subframe and control arm bushings at this time, as well.

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so i drill, and start the outer ring.

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then move to inner ring, so i can use the same pilot hole.

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go back to the outer, and get it deep enough to not need the pilot hole anymore, and finish inner hole.

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finish outer hole, and i have two rough perches.

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clean out the bore to fit just so over the strut tubes, and clean up outsides as well.

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set up the sleeve on the strut housing, so i make sure to get the perch flat all the way around for the sleeve.

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weld it up, and viola, a coilover strut housing is made.

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here is the completed look of the B3 setup i made. notice the front is a little different. this is because i made my own tie-rods for the front end, and did something a bit different. but doing the front just like the rears is fine.

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here is the finished Coupe rear strut.

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and the Coupe front strut setup. couple shots.

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[/i]



and the info regarding helper springs.

speeding-g60 wrote:
also, look up take-up spring sleeve..... thats what i did.

here is a few different options on this page. but at $25 a pop for the spacer/sleeve thing and $25 for the take-up spring, its another $200 for the whole car.....

http://www.genesisshocks.com/shock_accessories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://pitstopusa.com/b-4664-132093-hypercoils.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://pitstopusa.com/c-133219-springs- ... acers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-Take ... 24622.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.performancebodies.net/Produc ... gs&pid=768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:10 pm

lastly, i do not have any suggestions on spring rate or length for YOUR SETUP. i only know what i need for mine.

and i am well aware that messing with steering geometry can cause undesirable effects with regards to bump-steer and other stuff. but mine only goes straight and i put a VW FWD rack in my car, so i threw all of that other stuff out the window anyways :)
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Wheeljack » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:38 pm

I know this DIY has helped a lot of people make their own coilover sets over the last couple years. Most of the parts can be bought, as Aaron has linked above, but the weld-on rings have been something that I've had quite a few people contact me about as not everyone has (or wants to buy) the hole saw bits that may never get used again.

I've made quite a few sets, and continue to offer precision machined steel rings to weld onto your strut tubes for a typical installation. You just need to grind off the original fixed perches and find someone to weld rings on.

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http://brydon-eng.com/catalog/products/coilover-perch-rings-weld/

Here is an installed set of DIY coilovers made from a combination of old Ground Control parts and A1 Racing sleeves. The A1 parts are completely compatible with the Ground Control pieces which makes it nice if you have to mix and match things. In my case, the GC sleeves had become one with the original 1 piece b2 strut tubes they were originally installed on, so I had to use the A1 sleeves (or probably could have sourced them seperately fron GC; never checked into it, but they were red ano and they offer custom anodizing colors for an extra fee). Thankfully, I didn't have to buy all of the other parts that were still in good shape from the GC setup.

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Much of this applies similarly to B2 and B4 fronts as well. Thanks again for the DIY Aaron!
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:44 pm

thanks for the addition! i only copied my pertinent info from the other thread.

but i am glad that you are able to offer your pieces here for sale to anyone that doesnt want to go the holesaw route. it does suck, it is time consuming and a pain in the arse!

do you, by chance, have a price per pair of your machined pieces? i am sure if they were offered when i first made mine i would have hit you up for them. some things are easier to buy than make unfortunately. and these rings may just have fallen into that category. after the initial DIY, i ended up making about 3 more sets for other people then gave up as it was time consuming..... and time is sometimes worth more than the $$$$.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Wheeljack » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:55 pm

speeding-g60 wrote:thanks for the addition! i only copied my pertinent info from the other thread.

but i am glad that you are able to offer your pieces here for sale to anyone that doesnt want to go the holesaw route. it does suck, it is time consuming and a pain in the arse!

do you, by chance, have a price per pair of your machined pieces? i am sure if they were offered when i first made mine i would have hit you up for them. some things are easier to buy than make unfortunately. and these rings may just have fallen into that category. after the initial DIY, i ended up making about 3 more sets for other people then gave up as it was time consuming..... and time is sometimes worth more than the $$$$.


NP! I can do pairs as well--$24.99/pr. I will add that option to the site. I've been making them to order, but should probably just make up a decent sized batch one of these days and then I can be more consistent with the pricing, regardless of the quantity.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby All_Euro » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:54 pm

My first time seeing this - nice work.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Mcstiff » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:49 pm

Can anyone confirm that KWs actually have rotated arms? I've heard it both ways (I guess I could just email KW but it will be a while before I have that cash so may as well wait).
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:53 pm

i cant, its what i have always heard. i am rotating mine inwards for steering stuff concerning Toe on lift/acceleration and clearance to the tire.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Mcstiff » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:13 pm

Yeah, I understand the why ;) I've been considering the KWs because of their larger valves and other improvements but if the arm does not offer more tire clearance that would be an issue.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby PRA4WX » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:34 pm

New KW's do. Older did not. I think this is where the confusion comes in.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:09 pm

and i stopped by to see Chris@Nubworks to pick up some goodies.

the plates for the coilover sleeves.... it was much easier to have him machine them than me to hole-saw them out like normal. and since he was bored at work over the weekend he put them on an EDM machine :) said it took about 50 minutes per, and i told him the rest i can cut by hand LOL.

and using Koni Sports. NOS on Flea-bay. $94 for the pair. adjustable rebound :)

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:35 am

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby speeding-g60 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:18 pm

and since the Koni Sport struts i have fit loosely in the bore, i had Chris make me some spacers to hold them still. delrin. he told me he made them kinda sloppy at .002 clearance OD. i LOL'd at 2 thousandths.

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby amd is the best » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:50 pm

Awesome thread!

Aaron, have you come up with some type of a solution to keep the insides of the front springs from annoyingly rubbing in the strut nuts? Mine squeak like crazy and it's a bit annoying.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby SEStone » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 pm

amd is the best wrote:Awesome thread!

Aaron, have you come up with some type of a solution to keep the insides of the front springs from annoyingly rubbing in the strut nuts? Mine squeak like crazy and it's a bit annoying.


No issues hitting with B3 stuff. Are you using real 2.5" ID springs, or did you possibly get 60mm? Also, are you using the super cheap Summit ones, or a real Eibach/Hyperco/Swift spring? Better springs bow less when compressed and help avoid that.

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby amd is the best » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:41 pm

SEStone wrote:
amd is the best wrote:Awesome thread!

Aaron, have you come up with some type of a solution to keep the insides of the front springs from annoyingly rubbing in the strut nuts? Mine squeak like crazy and it's a bit annoying.


No issues hitting with B3 stuff. Are you using real 2.5" ID springs, or did you possibly get 60mm? Also, are you using the super cheap Summit ones, or a real Eibach/Hyperco/Swift spring? Better springs bow less when compressed and help avoid that.

Sam


I have Eibachs in my coilover setup so I assume they are 2.5". Maybe T44/URS strut nuts are larger?

Judging from that picture, T44 nuts are larger.
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Marc » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:50 pm

this thread is getting locked for posting commercial content


















belated april fools :D


keep the good stuff coming guys!
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Mcstiff » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:10 pm

:rofl:

Aaron, any tips on tie-rods. Maybe I should start a new thread. :beer:
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby EDIGREG » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:24 pm

amd is the best wrote:I have Eibachs in my coilover setup so I assume they are 2.5". Maybe T44/URS strut nuts are larger?

Judging from that picture, T44 nuts are larger.


Same issue here with Eibachs on UrS struts. The best solution IMO is slightly barrel-shaped springs. Eibach does make some that are like this, 2Bennett uses them on their coilover kits, and I believe ground control stocks them as well. I have been digging for more info but have not been able to find much yet. There are also other manufacturers who make barrel-shaped springs.

See the two photos below...all springs are made by Eibach. Barrel springs in the first picture (2B coilover kit), "standard" Eibach coilover springs in the second picture.

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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby 85oceanic » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:38 am

Aaron, Thanks for posting this up man! It's going to prove to be super helpful!
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby themagellan » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:33 pm

NICE!
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby Mk1Madness » Mon May 19, 2014 9:02 am

Awesome write up. Just got the car and sorting out issues first but this will happen in the future. :thumbsup:
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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby scubagli » Thu May 22, 2014 5:47 am

Does anyone know what effect turning the steering arms in will have on a street car? The first set of coils I built I have to run 20mm spacers to get a stock wheel to fit on the 4k...


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Re: Aarons NEW Coilover DIY, B3/CQ stuff.

Postby DE80q » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:26 am

I picked up a setup for my B3, somone else has already done all the work. The problem is, they are coming with springs suited to a track/drag car. 700/800 spring rate. What would be a good spring rate for a daily driven 80q? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a firm ride, but would like to keep the teeth I have left in my mouth...
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