gave into running audi trigger on vems

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gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:51 pm

well i gave in to running audi trigger on my and canned my 60-2 setup. even though im on my factory sensors now that most definitely worked with the stock ECU im having trigger problems. i cant win with trigger error's. anyhow, the car will start and idle with no trigger error's and than if you try to rev the car it says tooth length error and than it proceeds to say less sectrig while on throttle. when i let it down from idle it goes back to a clean no error trigger reading.

for the flywheel im using a single mass from an NG 2.3 audi 90 that has the counter weight machined off the back and the single firing pin added exactly where it is on the OEM dual mass flywheel. also on the firing pin on the flywheel i brought the in a little bit closer than what stock was so it would get a better signal. i ran the car in it for 2 years with the stock ECU and never had a problem with it.

Here's my trigger log. this was just idling and trying to free rev the car a few times.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8k41D1CY71wcXl3c3hMQzMxYXc/view?usp=sharing

This the last vemscfg file i used to make the above triggerlog above.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8k41D1CY71wV2ZIdkd0aVFWeVU/view?usp=sharing

Any insight on this would be great, i figured it would just fire and run fine on the default audi trigger settings using the OEM sensors but it wont.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby Marc » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:10 am

you probably need to reverse your + and - on the secondary (pin) trigger.

see here under "reversing CRANKHOME":

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=VemsAudiAan
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:19 pm

thanks marc, i did that too and i still get the same result. is the TDC after trigger supposed to be this low? this is where i found it will atleast idle without any trigger errors.

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"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby Mcstiff » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:14 pm

Do you have a timing light? It's running so you must be close but it would be good to confirm. I'm not sure that would change what you are seeing off idle.
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:57 am

i think someone sabotaged my car because when i went out yesterday to mess with it the ECU wouldnt respond again. turns out one of my coil plugs was flipped with one of my crank sensors so it fed 12v to the one coil input. the ECU is on its way back to marc again to see what failed in it this time. FML. i could have bought motec by now with how much this ECU has cost me with repeated failures and the things i've had to buy in an attempt to make it work. saddest part is i have yet to even drive my car on it and i've technically owned the ECU for almost a year and half.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby EDIGREG » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:30 pm

You should have just purchased the fully configured auditrigger plug-n-play ECU from Marc, certainly would have saved you a lot of headache.
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:46 pm

EDIGREG wrote:You should have just purchased the fully configured auditrigger plug-n-play ECU from Marc, certainly would have saved you a lot of headache.


i didnt have that kind of money. i only had around 800.00 bucks at the time to spend and getting a new PNP unit for a 1000.00 new is impossible. there's only 2 people i know that sell them new, 1 is marc and the other is kevin black AKA lugtronic. i still wish the stock motronic had more open source tunability like ECMlink V3 for DSM's or hondata/crome for the honda guys. my life would be easy sailing if that was the case. i know 034 sells the rip chip but they give no option to tune the boost chip which to me is pretty much pointless if you can only tune half of the ECU. if something like the ECMlink existed i would jump the VEMS ship and go back to the original motronic in a heart beat.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby Marc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:09 pm

I may or may not know about an add-in board for motronic in the works that will allow realtime tuning, map select, additional analog inputs. basically what the ripchip should have been, made from scratch for the AAN ecu. it'll be a while, though...
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby ringbearer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:10 pm

realtime tuning, that is the killer with the Rip Chip for me.

034 sold or sells a tuneable boost Rip Chip
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby Marc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:31 pm

ringbearer wrote:realtime tuning, that is the killer with the Rip Chip for me.


that and the fact that they give you what, 3 maps you can edit?

this will be everything accessible.

injector offset and voltage compensation
lambda target table
timing vs load
fuel vs load
MAF linearization
spark dwell
rev limit
load cut
launch control
no lift shift
boost control (target MAP and base n75 duty cycle)
speed density support
high speed realtime datalogging
real time map editing
map-select
usb connectivity for map loading
tunerpro software interface to the mapping

what the rip chip wishes it was....
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby ringbearer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:26 pm

Looking forward to this!
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby pilihp2 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:34 pm

Marc wrote:
ringbearer wrote:realtime tuning, that is the killer with the Rip Chip for me.


that and the fact that they give you what, 3 maps you can edit?

this will be everything accessible.

injector offset and voltage compensation
lambda target table
timing vs load
fuel vs load
MAF linearization
spark dwell
rev limit
load cut
launch control
no lift shift
boost control (target MAP and base n75 duty cycle)
speed density support
high speed realtime datalogging
real time map editing
map-select
usb connectivity for map loading
tunerpro software interface to the mapping

what the rip chip wishes it was....


Thats friggin cool 8-)
-Phil
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:38 pm

Marc wrote:
ringbearer wrote:realtime tuning, that is the killer with the Rip Chip for me.


that and the fact that they give you what, 3 maps you can edit?

this will be everything accessible.

injector offset and voltage compensation
lambda target table
timing vs load
fuel vs load
MAF linearization
spark dwell
rev limit
load cut
launch control
no lift shift
boost control (target MAP and base n75 duty cycle)
speed density support
high speed realtime datalogging
real time map editing
map-select
usb connectivity for map loading
tunerpro software interface to the mapping

what the rip chip wishes it was....



That exactly what im talking about marc! how and where do i get one of these wonderful setup's! you get me one and you can keep that VEMS ECU. only thing i dont see on the list is injector scaling but im going guess that will be in there.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby Marc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:54 pm

yeah injector scaling of course.

it will be a while. probably a year or so before it will be ready but hardware designs are in the works.
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby ringbearer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:10 pm

Better sell my awesome rip chips now ;)

I should have just have had Nate burn a chip set, I never touched anything after he tuned it.
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:49 pm

Marc wrote:yeah injector scaling of course.

it will be a while. probably a year or so before it will be ready but hardware designs are in the works.


keep me posted marc. i guess i'll stick with my VEMS battle for now till this setup goes public. not like i have any other choice really. Any word on pricing on such setup? i would expect it to cost around 600 to 800 bucks. ECMlink is around 550 bucks and hondata is around 500. so with having to design and build 2 daughter boards and all of the special programming involved i think 600 to 800 is a pretty good ball park. hell this thing will practically market itself once its available.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Location: PA

Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby Marc » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:57 am

initial estimate is $800. Its a tiny market relatively speaking, it cant be done for mega cheap.
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Re: gave into running audi trigger on vems

Postby vwnut8392 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:53 am

Marc wrote:initial estimate is $800. Its a tiny market relatively speaking, it cant be done for mega cheap.


i feel thats reasonable. i guess the others out there with similar setup's have a more broad range of vehicles to work with. over all at that price since its cheaper than VEMS these setup's should literally fly off the shelf. tuning on the stock ECU makes life so much easier than VEMS because if it ran on the stock ECU before it should once the daughter boards are installed.

if your working on this marc you should start a thread on here where the community could make suggestions on the development of the setup. I'd like to see an adjustable launch control and NLS setup that based off of a throttle pedal threshold, a clutch switch, wheel speed, and has the the ability to set the timing retard preferably in to negative numbers and a fuel enrichment % value while either setup is active along with an adjustable roll out speed. another thing that would be awesome is rolling launch control, i've seen the guys with nissan GTR's using this and its absolutely great for roll racing. with my shade tree hard launch control/NLS setup i configured a rolling LC using the set button on my cruse control and throttle pedal percentage in the WOT BOX. the car rockets to 23psi in a split second and whatever is beside me never knows what hit them till its already over lol.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Location: PA


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