Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Document and share your build!

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby speedydtp247 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:52 am

Ah there is that tiny turbo. Holy cow that thing is small. No wonder why they used 2 lol. Good luck on getting this unique car back on the road.
speedydtp247
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Dec 10, 2016

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Rennkafer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:03 am

Apparently the Italians had a thing for close tolerance head studs that corrode in place...

A few years back we had a Ferrari 330 come into the shop I worked in for an engine overhaul. Our lead tech spent a good day trying to get the heads off with zero success. Being the shop machinist guy, I got called over to take a look. Ended up building plates that bolted to the valve gear bosses with a jacking bolt over each head stud. 3 plates per head on the V12. Took 3 days of heating/cooling cycles with a dousing in penetrating oil after each but we got the heads off in usable condition.

Probably not too useful for you now since you bought another engine, but in case you found some need to get those other heads off...
Bill J
'12 GTI
'93 UrS4
'13 Mazda 3 (wife mobile)
'67 International Travelall
Rennkafer
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mar 10, 2013

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:38 am

That's about what I thought. I have considered the possibility of just welding nuts on teh studs too to back them out but the machine shop thinks they'll just snap
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Rennkafer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:22 pm

Grillage wrote:That's about what I thought. I have considered the possibility of just welding nuts on teh studs too to back them out but the machine shop thinks they'll just snap


We considered that as well and came to the same conclusion. As it turned out I'm certain we were correct on that as well. There was so much corrosion packed into the small pits in the studs and heads they were very effectively locked together. The combination of jacking force, heat (expanding/contracting breaks up the corrosion), and penetrating oil finally got it, but like I said, it took 3 days.
Bill J
'12 GTI
'93 UrS4
'13 Mazda 3 (wife mobile)
'67 International Travelall
Rennkafer
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mar 10, 2013

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:26 pm

the scene in my basement:

Image
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Silverswift85 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:12 am

Can't wait to see how everything turns out. Good luck!
Silverswift85
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Jan 20, 2017

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:20 am

Had the chance to make a little progress yesterday.

My yard is a construction zone right now with a garage being built
Image
Image


Anyway, I am moving forward with building up the spare engine I bought to put it in the car (once I have level hard ground again)

So I was able to Drill out the oil provisions that had been blocked off by the prior single turbo configuration
Another thing that wasn't obvious to me before is that I needed to figure out a place for the power steering pump. The '85s didn't come with Power steering at all but my '86 did. Happily this was pretty simple. The TB tensioner bracket doubles as the mount for that pump
Image
Only thing was I had to drill into and tap the block for that rear bolt in the above picture. Thankfully, the block had the same aluminum cast flange (or whatever you'd call it) as the '86 did:
Image

Voila!
Image

Now to get all this stuff installed
Image

These gaskets are literally just paper - the '86 engine had been put together with just RTV or silicone. no paper gakets. I might go that route to some degree
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby longhauler » Sat May 06, 2017 2:04 am

I owned an 87 fuel injected. Was very modified and ironically my daily driver for almost two years. When cared for, these are great cars.
longhauler
 
Posts: 1
Joined: May 6, 2017

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:52 am

Finally able to make some progress on this now that the garage is done
Image
Here is the Maserati in its new bay:
Image

anyway, I got the 85 engine put mostly together and back in the car tuesday.
I cleaned the bay pretty well beforehand:
Image
then installed:
Image

I need to deal with the turbos now. The 85 had just oil cooled turbos while the '86 had oil and coolant cooled. I only have the 86 turbos and the 85 block is missing the return for the coolant. Originally, the 86 had water returns tapped into the block that went back into the water jacket but I wasn't comfortable assuming things would be the same on the 85 block and drilling into it. So I am now going to run them both back up to the return from the heater core I think.

Has anyone added coolant lines for a turbo before?
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:44 am

Just go with your gut instinct here. I don't think it matters much where you return the coolant. Which ever is convenient for you.
96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
ChrisAudi80
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:17 pm

I've made a lot of progress now. I am waiting on a new set of radiator hoses (the '85 and '86 have different sized thermostat housing of course) and then I'll be ready to run the car, figure out the idle, flush transmission fluid and DRIVE it.

Some pics of the almost completed engine:
Image
Image

The car in my new garage:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Hopefully I'll be taking this thing for a test drive by next weekend!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Marc » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:00 pm

nice! I spy a 20vt lurking in the background. a solid pland b if the masaturd engine doesn't work out.
Marc Swanson
Proprietor, EFI Express

Image
Marc
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Feb 27, 2013

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:38 pm

Marc wrote:nice! I spy a 20vt lurking in the background. a solid pland b if the masaturd engine doesn't work out.


That AAN is for the b4. That's next year's project.

You'll know it's starting when I start sending you large sums of money!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:11 pm

I got this thing running today!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5rnCJiTg2A&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Even drove it down the street and back - with no hood on it

However, it has a miss on cylinder 4.

what's strange is that I have spark there and I have compression as well. With a carburetor, it would be very strange for just one cylinder to not have fuel

is it possible that some sort of issue with the valve spacer shims could cause the intake valve(s) to not open? That would explain the no fuel in the cylinder

Would a cylinder have a good compression test with intake valves not opening?
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby the german » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:14 pm

New plugs? Bent valve?
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
the german
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Feb 15, 2014
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:23 pm

I was able to figure out the misfire this morning. The cylinders are numbered CLOCKWISE - not front to back on the left (1,2,3) and then front to back on the right (4,5,6) the right is front to back 6,5,4 - so swapping plugs on 6 and 4 fixed the issue.

However, as it always does, another issue has sprung up. I am getting a LOT of smoke at higher revs. Idle is fine but when I rev it, it's a mosquito fogger.

I am leaning toward oil leak inside the turbo going into the exhaust manifold right now. does this make sense?

here's a video:
https://youtu.be/yute6qzkcX4
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby the german » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:19 am

Could be oil seals in the turbo(s); if they haven't been replaced it's not a bad idea. How is the PCV? Is there an old check valve that could be clogged up?
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
the german
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Feb 15, 2014
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:08 am

This is such a weird car - there's no check valve in the pcv - the back of the heads are ducted direct to the intake.
However, you can't tune the car with the intake system connected because the carburetor sits inside a closed plenum. I'm doing all this with the intake system not totally connected and the boost just blowing in my face basically.

I'll try to connect everything and see if it makes a difference.
Good thinking!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby elaw » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:20 am

How much have you driven the car?

I'm wondering if it's just residual oil in the intake that gets drawn in when you open the throttle and airflow increases. Or maybe some similar effect in the exhaust.

I'd wait until you're able to take it on a decently long drive (like half an hour or more) at normal speeds before worrying too much.
Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
User avatar
elaw
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Jan 6, 2014
Location: MA, USA

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:48 am

I was hoping it would be something like that but I pulled the downpipe / y pipe to see what I could and it's definitely an oil leak

here's the passenger's side:
Image

and the driver's side:
Image

dripping with oil

so the next step is to pull it back out and rebuild!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 pm

Am I better off sending this off for a rebuild or buying a replacement CHRA?

I've never messed with turbos before. Here's the one I found:
http://www.turbosoutlet.com/chra-rhb5-vm3l4r-5l6r#
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby the german » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:35 am

Rebuilding is generally pretty easy if the hardware isn't locked up. Try taking them apart first and see if a rebuild is even a realistic option. If not, go for the replacement.
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
the german
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Feb 15, 2014
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:10 pm

Pulled the engine this morning to assess the issue and I see that there is oil leaking into the exhaust manifold ahead of the turbo.

Since I have good compression does this mean valve stem seals?
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Grillage » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:02 pm

Well that escalated quickly:
Image
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed
1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
2011 A4 Avant


PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige
User avatar
Grillage
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ben's Maserati Biturbo Spyder

Postby Sparkyjack » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:23 pm

Considering how stuck the heads where on the original engine I wondered was going to happen once the engine was on the stand.
Question answered, seems like these heads did not give you a lot of grief.

8 studs, wow I want to say there are more bolts hold the head on a Briggs and Stratton.

Are the seals readily available?
Jack
There are 16 rings on my driveway
'90 CQ, '01 b5q(dogs)(auto), '09 b8q, '17 b9q (wife's)(auto)
Sparkyjack
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Jan 3, 2015
Location: Westminster, MD

PreviousNext

Return to Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests