George's ABZ'd B4 90

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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby Gav » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:45 am

Hi ,
Great project with a great write up.
Im based in the uk. Ive also got a pearl white b4Q saloon running the later 40v 4.2 v8 from a c5 s6. Ive picked it up as a part running project and been trawling the US forums for info as there is very little on this conversion over here.
Everything is up and running. It goes ( quickly) and stops but the conversion is very agricultural. My plan is to make it as factory as possible.
Interesting info on the cooling. Mine has mix mash of pipework and using the stock 2.6 rad with 3 slimline fans with a separate two stage controller running two of the fans. However the in dash gauge is showing 121deg constant. Need to get it plugged into vcds and get a true reading. Power steering groans like hell. Ive tried 2 different dual vane v6 pump but the droan is still there. Will look at converting to vacuum brakes / steering and try to use the s6 pump.
Also has a miss when hot on WOT, think this might be a failing coilpack. Again need to have a look on vcds

Sorry for the hijack. Will keep following this and see how you get on
All the best
Gav
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby the german » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:35 pm

Link to the immo defeat you used?
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby Gav » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:25 am

No immobiliser delete yet. The s6 clocks are partly still wired in and placed in the glove box
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby the german » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:32 am

That question was meant for George, sorry for any confusion
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:58 am

Gav wrote:Hi ,
Great project with a great write up.
Im based in the uk. Ive also got a pearl white b4Q saloon running the later 40v 4.2 v8 from a c5 s6. Ive picked it up as a part running project and been trawling the US forums for info as there is very little on this conversion over here.
Everything is up and running. It goes ( quickly) and stops but the conversion is very agricultural. My plan is to make it as factory as possible.
Interesting info on the cooling. Mine has mix mash of pipework and using the stock 2.6 rad with 3 slimline fans with a separate two stage controller running two of the fans. However the in dash gauge is showing 121deg constant. Need to get it plugged into vcds and get a true reading. Power steering groans like hell. Ive tried 2 different dual vane v6 pump but the droan is still there. Will look at converting to vacuum brakes / steering and try to use the s6 pump.
Also has a miss when hot on WOT, think this might be a failing coilpack. Again need to have a look on vcds

Sorry for the hijack. Will keep following this and see how you get on
All the best
Gav


Sweet project. I have a friend thinking about putting a belt driven Audi V8 into a B3/B4 chassis! Are you using the stock ECU? Retrofit the accelerator pedal into the B4 for drive by wire? How does it run?

the german wrote:Link to the immo defeat you used?


Here is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1785545656

So far the car did not start without the immo installed. Once installed it fired up, and then after I was able to unplug it right away and start the car again.

I got to drive it again a bit and its not running correctly. Similiar issues to what I had going on for the Carlisle trip. Full throttle sucks, like its bogging down.

A little history, so I can keep this straight:

First ECU :
1997 A8, stock - ran ok, full throttle was weird, had to find a sweet spot partial throttle wise and she would move out.
Had TCU codes when scanned a few random misfires.

Second ECU :
1999 A8, stock - ran well, full throttle was there, everything else seems great
Never scanned.

Third (current) ECU :
1999, A8, with reflect tuning chip and immo, ran ok. Similiar to first ECU, but maybe even worse, as I can't find that sweet spot where it would accelerate quickly. I dont know how the immo device would effect any of this, but its either that or the chip I installed. I had it done by a guy I work with who has been doing stuff like this for years, so I am confident it was installed correctly. Before the reflect chip was installed the immo device was not needed. The chip, is based off of a euro file which apprently needs the immo device.
Never scanned. My next step is to scan this current ECU.

Might end up trying to find another 1999 ECU and just run it stock. I'm thinking there are some differences ECU and/or hardware wise between different model year ABZs.

I've been training for a half ironman, so car stuff has been on the backburner, severely.
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby the german » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:15 am

Thanks!
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:31 am

Few developments...

Have put this project off to do other things, until about a week ago when I decide oh shit lets go to Carlisle...

Figured out a few thing on the cluster but still can't get the temperature gauge to work. From what I can tell the blue/brown wire (pin 2, I think) on the black connector going to the cluster should go to the T connection on the temp sensor from the V6. I tried doing that offline, grounding the threads, heating up the sensor and running the wire right to the sensor. Gauge doesn't move.

Any insight on this? I also tried using the ABZ sensor that goes to the gauge but it seems a bit different. I could really use a pointer on how to get this functioning!

Lastly, I never had a speed signal going to the ECU... which might be why acceleration stuff was scewy with some ECUs? @the german, did you need to run that to the ECU?
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby Grillage » Wed May 16, 2018 3:50 pm

I had a similar issue with the temp sensor on my ABH/ABZ hybrid CQ. I ended up with the thought that whatever temp sensor the cluster is looking for needs to be put on the engine. The CQ (and I think the B4) use a MFTS with 3 or 4 prongs rather than the 1 or 2 prong sensor the ABZ uses. Do you have a wiring book for the B4?

Speed signal - you mean vehicle speed or engine speed?
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby the german » Wed May 16, 2018 5:22 pm

I'll check my notes RE temp sensor and VSS signal when I get home. As I recall, VSS signal goes to both ECU and cluster but will confirm.
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:56 pm

I mean vehicle speed. The car won't run without engine speed, but like I said in a post above I get some weird behavior with different ECUs and the only one that works well-ish is a stock 1999. I'm going to give it a shot, it's not hard to hook up. It would be awesome it it fixed my chipped ECU issues.

As far as the coolant temp goes, I had the wiring correct on the 4 wire ( updated part has 3) multi function coolant switch. My cluster was not working right though. Luckily I has a spare and swapped it in, I was able to get a reading from the original sensor by heating it up offline, grounding the threads and running the blue/brown wire from the clutster to it.

I decided to try to use the OE ABZ one ( front of the engine, right side when looking at the front of the car) by running my cluster wire (regulated 10v blue/brown) to the sensor and unlike the V6 sensor this one has a dedicated ground. To my joy it worked, the gauge reads a little higher than the normal V6, but I can easily run vagcom and match the tick marks to actual temperatures.

All in all it's coming together, also got the car inspected today which is a huge deal. The last one expired in 2017...

Edit: thanks for the help guys!
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:34 am

Image



I am just now looking for where to give the ECU a speedo signal, cannot find that pinout.
Last edited by lorge1989 on Tue May 22, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby Grillage » Thu May 17, 2018 8:07 pm

From what I can tell, the VSS doesn't go to the ECU.

Here's the wiring diagram I used when I did my VEMS V8'd CQ

Top right of page 3 shows the VSS going to Instrument Cluster and nowhere else.
PDF attached too
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ABZ Motronic Wiring.pdf
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:06 am

Well I am getting the code P0501 - which is a vehicle speed sensor range/performance issue. And I'm thinking the TCU may have sent over speed, which I don't have anymore. Even on the older stuff the instrument cluster has a 'speed out' to the ECU, the V6 the was in this thing before even had this. ( I am looking now and can't find the diagram I saw this on :rofl: , but I will find it! )

While those diagrams are great, I had alldatadiy at some point for this car and those diagrams were much more complete. I'm going to have to buy a bentley or get the all data again.....

I'm going to keep on lookin a bit. Thanks for the help!
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:24 am

The car has been running well as of late, not any issues have popped up. Nothing that I wasn't already putting off fixing. When i installed coilovers on the front of the car the quality of the struts was questionable, and the application was also in question because I think I am hitting the bump stops, when I' not even that low. Currently installing some new KYB inserts and H&R springs to bring the more comfortable ride quality back.

After that, I plan on going through and putting a oil cooler in the car and hopefully installing my power steering pump. With the power steering pump potentially comes a decent amount of work since I will need to run a full serpentine setup with AC compressor and a few more idlers than I'm using now.

I think after all that is done, I will put it up for sale. I have a B3 that has been really neglected as well as a few other vehicles. Too many projects and not enough time. Honestly this is the car that has been the most fun out of all of them, because how good it sounds and how well it drives, but I still think its going to go up on the chopping block.

I'm not really sure how to price it. Major flaws are the door cars which need the leather re-attached and the clear coat on the top of the roof and spoiler/trunk has seen better days. I honestly don't want a whole lot out of it, but it would be nice to sell it to someone who will enjoy it and finish up a few bits that it needs to be truly complete in my eyes. Hmmmm
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Feb 2, 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby jolio1994 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:55 pm

If the price is right it'd be great in my garage. Let's hear a price and maybe I can set some money aside
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:03 pm

I really have no clue on a price, but I usually having a hard time selling stuff in a state I'm not happy with. When I get it to a point where its sale-able, Ill hit you up. I doubt many people are looking for project cars at this point anyway.
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby jolio1994 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:23 pm

Did you ever figure out if the VSS has input into the ECU. I've looked everywhere and cannot seem to find it aswell, at least for me 7.1.1

I'm hoping it's integrated into the CANBUS
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:40 am

I never ended up changing anything. I'm still also wondering if maybe each model year got a different throttle body or tune or something silly that I'm not thinking of since I'm mixing parts from 97-99 ABZs with seemingly different results.
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
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Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby 90quattrocoupe » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:50 pm

The throttle bodies on the ABZs, in the states, are the same for the years. I have gotten couple for parts. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the throttle bottles for the Automatics are different from the cars that came with manuals.
On automatic throttle bodies, both butterflies open at the same time and rate. On the manual cars the smaller butterfly opens first then the larger one.

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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:25 am

90quattrocoupe wrote:The throttle bodies on the ABZs, in the states, are the same for the years. I have gotten couple for parts. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the throttle bottles for the Automatics are different from the cars that came with manuals.
On automatic throttle bodies, both butterflies open at the same time and rate. On the manual cars the smaller butterfly opens first then the larger one.

Greg W.



This is interesting. I wonder that if the chip I purchased was for use with a manual throttle body? https://reflecttuning.square.site/produ ... /1?cs=true

Seems sort of unlikely. Thank you for the info!
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Feb 2, 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:38 am

Image2020-08-24_07-40-49 by George, on Flickr

Does not look much different but its driving great. First time its actually been sorted out pretty much completely.

New H&R springs, that I used to run on my other 90. This car literally sits 1.5" lower on the same spring. I guess the 1.8T car is pretty light up front..... Also got rid of the Bilsteins that were riding like crap and replaced them with some run of the mill kyb sport struts or something. They ride much better.

Installed a B5 A4 AC compressor (plugged ports, no lines hooked up yet). I had to do this to get ready for AC one day and also needed it to route the belt properly on the power steering pump. Yes finally I have power steering. :) I was able to use the factory V6 hardline, bent up a little and a B5A4 pump that bolts right to the V8 brackets without modification. The serpentine belt setup works well, even with the factory tensioner (small amount of travel in the orientation I am using it in). The belt will occasionally squeal on startup, which is annoying, but it seems to be infrequent. I wanted to use the fancy 'W' ribbed belt to prevent the slipping, but in the length that I needed, I could only get the traditional V style.

I originally had the coolant line that fed the oil cooler (factory oil cooler/heater) plumbed to the back of the engine. But I had read mixed reviews on if that was good or bad to bypass the radiator. I put a plug in the block and capped the back line so now everything is running through the rad. Seems like everything is a bit more stable temperature wise. I still only have 2 pans pushing air from the front, which is not ideal, but the car stays cool.

Last but not least relocated the oil filter to the passenger side in front of the wheel well. Thermomstatic sandwich plate and a small cooler to finish it off. Finding a place to mount all that was a bear, but its nice and tucked in there.

Image2020-08-24_09-45-29 by George, on Flickr
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Feb 2, 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby themagellan » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:55 pm

Great job - looks great on the suspension. The power steering must be an amazing feeling after it being down - especially when you need to park it :)
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Re: George's ABZ'd B4 90

Postby lorge1989 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:01 am

I got used to it to be honest. But it just makes it so much easier to push in the corners when you don't have to think about steering so much. :D

Just put it up for sale on facebook and it looks like I have someone flying in tomorrow to buy it. Went really fast, and its def bittersweet. :idunno: But the to be owner seems like hes got plans for it, and will take the car to the next level.
1988 Audi 90Q 1.8T 20v megasquirt'd and Holset'd
1994 Audi 90Q ABZ
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1978 GMC High Sierra

http://dubsinthebuff.com
lorge1989
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Feb 2, 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY

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