10vt vems wiring questions

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10vt vems wiring questions

Postby dustin4kq » Sun May 01, 2016 9:13 pm

After lurking for quite some time over here im finally starting up a project page. Ive been on motorgeek since about 2005 but think its time to move on. im not much of a writer, and I just wrote this whole thing up it failed to post and I lost it all sooo heres round 2.
I live just north of Winchester va. Ive owned quite a few audis, no major mods, mostly maintenance and little tweaks here and there. Ive worked as a mechanic for the last 12 years, about 95% of what I do is European cars, ive always worked at indies so it been all types, all different years. From carbs to cis to efi to direct inject, with a little diesel here and there.

-84 4kq with nf engine and coil overs, hit a deer, stripped and crushed
-87 5tkq chip and spring, bpv. hit a deer, pulled motor and crushed
-88 5ktq chip spring, bpv, motor from previous with the NF head from the 84, parted and cushed
-90 200tqa sold
-89 200tqa 20v intercooler, swann chip spring, bpv. currently offline future unknown...
-2001 a4 1.8tqa manual trans, stage 2 unitronic, exhaust, drop in filter, upgraded d.v. replaced the wifes old 200tqa as her daily

So the project car is an 1985 4000q. It has the mc1 from the 88 5ktq. NF head with 034 larger exhaust valves, headstuds, mls headgasket, dialynx exhaust manifold, k24, front mount ebay intercooler that is slightly larger than a urq intercooler larger oil cooler mounted in front on the radiator. 3b clutch and flywheel. 5ktq trans with an urq rear diff. Lots of suspension upgrades. Interior is black leather I swapped in with good door cards and pretty beat seats. Im running CIS with a wide band to keep it in check. Running about 18 psi right now. Cant wait to ditch it, not that I hate CIS, im just excited to learn about stand alone and cant wait for a little more power. I just did the 5 lug swap and have a few questions.

I used 5ktq front strut housings, 5ktq struts, g60 brakes, comp brake strut mounts, mark 2 gti tie rod ends, 034 bent tie rod, 034 urq ball joints, a1 racing sleeves, adjusters and hats and helper springs with eibach main springs, flat bearings on the spring seats. set ride height a little lower than stock maybe. The comp brake strut mounts don't seem to engage quite enough thread for my liking since the 5ktq struts don't have as many. I think im going to switch to urq bilsteins to remedy this. I love how they feel, I hope they last as they seem to get mixed reviews.
I set the alignment by, setting the wheel straight ahead and then measuring from the front of the tires, tread to tread and then the rear of the tires until the were equal. I also measured from the inner tread to the sway bar mount bracket and tried to keep those measurements equal as well.



The car rides great no noises and feels tight. The steering however feels very darty and touchy. Its very noticeable on the gravel road I live on. A little steering input goes a long way and seems to need constant input. feels a little scary at speed on the gravel road.

I was wondering if I could have bent the tie rod to much or in the wrong spot? I had to bend it more since it was hitting the down pipe. Put it in the press at work and made some adjustments with a hammer on the floor when I got it home

Does it matter I switched the mark 2 tie rods, left on the right and right on the left? Seemed better for tie rod clearance.

Ive been reading a bit about bump steer and steering geometry and wonder if this might be my problem. I know my alignment is pretty slack but ive checked it a few times, and have done this type of alignment before with much better results. I fully plan on getting a 4 wheel alignment but I don't want to pay for one and then need to tear it all back apart. I know this swap has been done many times so I just wanted to get some input before I take it in to get it aligned or tear it back apart. gonna try and add some pics here too.

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Last edited by dustin4kq on Sat May 20, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby DE80q » Mon May 02, 2016 7:57 am

Nice to see you here! It honestly sounds like you just need a good alignment. My 80 would use any little bump and Mark in the road to cause me to move the wheel. After I got the alignment done, that all went away, and I could take my hands off the wheel with confidence.

On a side note, so far the 01A is holding up well.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby Rocket SLC » Mon May 02, 2016 11:13 am

Good looking car and swap. Getting rid of the CIS will be great. Standalone is the only way to go with boost. Been there, done that. It was a huge upgrade on my 10vt. Bend the tierod a bit, and then get a proper alignment. It shouldn't take much bending. An alignment makes all the difference in the world. Just make sure all of your tierods and ball joints are free before you take it in.
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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby LeafBox » Mon May 02, 2016 12:55 pm

Here's the tierod on my B3, just heated it up and gave it hell ;)
Or if you prefer, 034Motorsport sells pre-bent ones...

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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby DE80q » Mon May 02, 2016 1:15 pm

LeafBox wrote:Here's the tierod on my B3, just heated it up and gave it hell ;)
Or if you prefer, 034Motorsport sells pre-bent ones...

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I hope you didn't heat the tie rod. That will make it brittle. There have been many broken tie rods 1-2 years after due to heating them to bend them.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby LeafBox » Mon May 02, 2016 2:19 pm

DE80q wrote:
LeafBox wrote:Here's the tierod on my B3, just heated it up and gave it hell ;)
Or if you prefer, 034Motorsport sells pre-bent ones...

[pic]pic[/pic]

I hope you didn't heat the tie rod. That will make it brittle. There have been many broken tie rods 1-2 years after due to heating them to bend them.


Honestly I don't even know exactly how the process was done. I let my uncle who's a welder/metal fabricator do it.
I assume he knows what he's doing, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned heating it up (it was super long ago though might misremember)

I mean, how would you even bend it without heat if your not the Hulk?
Last edited by LeafBox on Mon May 02, 2016 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby DE80q » Mon May 02, 2016 2:22 pm

You can use a press, or a long pipe to give leverage. We have learned the hard way not to heat them over the years. It is tubing, so bends a little easier than solid.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby LeafBox » Mon May 02, 2016 2:25 pm

Looking at some other pictures now and I'm pretty sure there's some welding going on.
He might have cut it and welded some pieces in? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would just have heated it up anyway :D
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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby dustin4kq » Mon May 02, 2016 4:11 pm

Ok that's what I wanted to hear, stop being cheap and get it aligned. I actually had an 034 pre bent rod. I was at home and didn't have any good tools to modify it. Funny I still had to tweak it! I didn't heat it but I have heated many many with a torch to loosen them.
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Re: 85 4ktq first post with intro and questions

Postby dustin4kq » Mon May 02, 2016 4:14 pm

I do like how the one in the picture looks because it's more notched than bent. I'll look at mine closer when I get home.
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Dustins 10vt 4kq, time for efi after getting distracted

Postby dustin4kq » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:54 pm

ok so I got a little side tracked with a car that came through my work, needed a little work but they had a price on it I couldn't refuse. 1986 325es. One owner car that I've worked on for the last almost 10 years, interior is about mint except for the cracked dash. Needed a driveshaft, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket and he hit something in the road and had ripped the front spoiler off, may need a rear diff too. I really want to leave it stock and a daily driver, but the power level is not quite where I want it. The e engines are kind of an oddball motor for a sports car. It has 2.93 lsd diff, when I replace it I think ill go 3.20 lsd and see how that helps. Ive really been wanting a rwd car, might sell it and get a Milano verde or some other euro rear driver. The level of support for these e30s is insane compared to type 85 Audi's!

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Anyways...The alignment came out great on the 4ktq. I need to slot the 034 ball joints but other than that camber issue, its straight and rides great. I looked at the comp brake mounts and I think the nut has enough thread so im going to let that go for now. I ordered a set of corbeau gts 2 seats that should be here next week sometime to replace the thrashed black leather that in there now. Also picked up a little 110v welder but I need to run a 40amp service to the garage, should have the cable run next week sometime. Ive never welded before so im looking forward to playing with that. Figure ill need to make some seat brackets.

I'm also ready to start collecting efi stuff, some questions:

1. 034 fuel rail seems the easiest but I think ill source my own AN stuff
2. I'm running the k24, what type/size injectors do I need?
3. Seems to be a lot of options when it comes to fuel pressure regulators, looking for some input on that...
4. I'm going VEMS for management and will hopefully be in touch with efi express this week sometime.
5. I have the wide band already, tps?, coolant temp?. Efi express should point me in the right direction for that stuff I hope

thanks for any input you all can offer.
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Re: back on track time for efi!

Postby dustin4kq » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:31 pm

So as usual small progress. We just bought some more land around the farm to keep neighbors and restrictions at bay and I still have a good bit of fence to put up, which all is cutting into the efi budget. After a quick email with efi express, I think im going to need around 3k to get it done how I would like. I had the car waxed and buffed and got the corbeaus installed. I ordered their brackets and they really worked well. I might have to re drill the front mount since with the seat all the way forward it still might not be close enough. I'm about 5 8' and I think another inch forward might be nice to have some extra adjustment. The seatbelt mount is a little off and rides right against the tilt adjustment. It would be nice and not to hard, in the future to make a different one of those. The height is ok and they just stack washers to adjust it so I might remove some of them to bring the height down a little. The seats fell great and are nice and tight. The old ones rattled around quite a bit and from the pictures you can see they were mostly held together with duct tape. anyone interested in them let me know I would basically give them away. The passengers is ok, its starting to split and the leather is pretty dry.

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Re: 10v dialynx with intake spacer, anyone done it?

Postby dustin4kq » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:13 am

Just got my vems from Marc and and have started the efi conversion. Before I put the 2871r on I wanted to get it tuned on the k24. Problem is the intake just won't fit with the dialynx exhaust manifold and intake spacer and the Fuel rail won't fit with out the spacer. I've ground as much as I can from the intake I believe. Does the updated 034 rail fit w/o the spacer? I think I have an original version or home made. Picked up a 034 10v header 3" dp and 2871r maybe best to just go ahead and put that on and be done. I feel I'm going to need more intercooler to really take advantage though. I wanted to go in steps to save down time, learn VEMS. What do you think?

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10v turbo opinions

Postby dustin4kq » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:34 am

Ive ground and ground on my intake and cannot get the intake to fit with the spacer on the dialynx manifold. So im gonna just go ahead with the 034 tube header and DP. I have a 2871r that seems to be in ok shape that came with the setup. I was thinking of picking up a gt28rs or maybe the volvo k24 7400, have to check what flange it runs vs the 034 header. My goal is around 300hp, with good drivablilty and quick boost. something fun for rally cross and windy gravel roads. You can see above that my intercooler is not the greatest so Im a litte concerned about throwing the 2871r on there and turning it up to where it would be fun. Im looking for opinions on weather I should just go ahead with 2871r or pick up a smaller turbo for a little better response. So anyone who's run a 28rs, volvo k24 7400 or the gt2817r let me know your thoughts. I do have a 1.8t avant that the 28rs could end up on if I decide to upgrade to the 2871r...
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby Afterthought » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:23 pm

Welcome to the forum Dustin and great looking car. Good choice on the VEMS...
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby dustin4kq » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:38 pm

thanks for the compliment. Im getting ready to get into the wiring and im sure ill have some questions.
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby DE80q » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:03 pm

dustin4kq wrote:thanks for the compliment. Im getting ready to get into the wiring and im sure ill have some questions.

Oh man.. I hate wiring! Not sure how bad it will be with VEMS, but building the MS3X harness was not fun at all. It will all be worth it in the end though.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby dustin4kq » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:24 am

anything to be wary of from the start? I do a lot of wiring at work on cars, but its all repair/fault tracing, im not designing anything. I really just put it back like it was. No worries about sizing of wire or shielding, and I do understand that ground is by far my biggest worry. Tips on ground would be appreciated. Hopefully this weekend ill get started, hopefully.
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby DE80q » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:17 am

Just make sure your have good grounds. I had to add 2 large grounds from the engine to the chassis to clean thing up in that system. The other thing is to use good shielded cables for the VR, hall, and knock sensors. That will keep the signals clean to the VEMS. I know MS has hateful problems with electronic noise. The more you route things away from high current items, the happier the computer will be.

Are you planning to keep the dizzy, or go coil per plug?
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby dustin4kq » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:45 am

i was going to start with the dizzy, but still wire it for coil on plug in the future. I thought the dizzy would make it easier to get up and running.
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby vt10vt » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:06 pm

Starting off with a dizzy setup will make it *slightly* easier for initial startup, but it will create a lot more work down the road when you go to convert to a COP setup. VEMS has native support for both the factory triggers and COP, I would strongly suggest skipping a dizzy setup. I've done MS on a dizzy and VEMS COP, if you have any specific questions feel free to reach out (response times may vary ;) )
-Shawn C.
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2001 S4 6spd Avant blk/blk, bone stock
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby DE80q » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:04 pm

I'm with Shawn on the dizzy. Using that will make it a little easier/cheaper at first, but tunning will suffer. Jumping directly into coils may cost more up front, but will give you much better timing control. Either way will work though.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby dustin4kq » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:58 am

ok good advice. What do I need to consider when selecting coils? I had thought about building a bracket to run the audi/vw coil on plug units (cheap plentiful, tiddy look) instead of running coils with plug wires. I started to read the vems wiki about coil selection and they did talk about using the audi/vw coils so im guessing it should work. They also talked about ohming the primary and secondary of the coil, which i understand, but not to the extent of how it effects the vems. thanks again for the input
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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby DE80q » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:08 am

Sorry, can't help with setting up VEMS with VW coils. I went with LS2 coils for my setup.
"If you cant find one, make one!"


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Re: 10v turbo opinions

Postby vt10vt » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:52 pm

VEMS should run VAG 4 wire coils just fine without any real modifications. 1 wire to 12v, one to valve cover ground, one to sensor ground in harness, one to ECU (5v trigger) and done, then you just need to make sure the settings in the ECU are right.
-Shawn C.
2002 01E B6 A4 Built FYF, Built 1.8T, HX35 ~330whp
2001 S4 6spd Avant blk/blk, bone stock
1989 MC-1 200 Avant- MS1 MSnS -Gone but will never forget her lessons
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