Kevin's V8 Quattro 5-speed

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Kevin's V8 Quattro 5-speed

Postby Aktapod » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:19 pm

Okay, so full disclosure: not mine.

It all starts with an entirely unrelated story. I'm sure everyone is antsy to hear the juicy the details about a dealership that forgot how to Audi, but going into detail would take far too long.

The gist of it goes like this: My dad dailies a B5 S4. Once you've finished laughing, help yourself to another dose of schadenfreude, because it's a Stage 3 S4 - and he likes to make sure the car doesn't forget it.

As you can imagine, he often deals with completely anticipated, yet entirely unpredictable failures. Unfortunately, between my schoolwork and extracurriculars, I am not always able to find the time to replace the [insert OEM "non-wear" item]. As a result, my dad would frequently have the car serviced at the local stealership. It was great! They'd give him a shiny new Audi to thrash about in while they covered the car with fly paper and threw parts at it. After several botched jobs, though, I noticed that it often came back with more problems than when it left. It'd be missing parts, too, which the dealership would conveniently find in the shop after I called them. Eventually, the game of "bring it back, and we'll take care of it" grew old, and we stopped taking it to them, despite unresolved issues.

My dad needed a change, so we laid out his options: Find another shop, let me do the repairs, or buy a different car to daily. Without the luxury of Audi's loaner car, though, each option would require buying another car.

About a week after this conversation, I stumbled upon a great deal on Motorgeek for a '92 Audi V8. Amazingly, it was green-lighted within a day by both my parents! Next thing I know, my brother, dad and I were on the overnight bus to Washington D.C. to meet the new family member. The previous owner was extremely accommodating and offered to pick us up at the station. He took us back to his home and we arrived to find this waiting for us:

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I cannot stress enough how amazing the PO was. He was very informative on the phone before the trip and seemed unperturbed by our delirious, unshowered state when we arrived. He took us through just about everything he was aware of that was wrong. He owned another (factory 5-speed) V8, and was just looking to get rid of this one, as it had been sitting around for a while.

We fired up the 4.2L behemoth and were greeted with a smooth, but commanding idle. As we set off, something was immediately apparent. Although he had informed me of the excessive play in the brake pedal, engaging the brakes was not confidence inspiring. They were accompanied by a horrible grinding noise, and it took quite a lot of effort to bring the car to a stop.

Upon inspection, we found that the front passenger rotor was shot. In addition, the rears didn't seem to engage at all and the parking brake didn't work. I really can't fault the owner, though, as he'd hardly driven it. He was extremely apologetic and said he wouldn't have had us come up if he'd realized it was that bad; he even offered a price drop to cover the cost of new brakes.

We called around to see if we could swap the rotors/pads for the trip home, but none of the shops had the parts available within a day. In the end, the owner jacked up the car and guided me through a dry run of the brake job - a task I've amazingly managed to avoid until this point. Knowing we could do the job with the tools I'd brought (if needed), we set off with extreme caution - but not before the previous owner offered us several spare parts he had lying around. What a guy!

We spent the night with friends from Knoxville and toured the National Mall while we were there, before setting course for Knoxville the next day.

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Thankfully, the cool weather made for a very pleasant and uneventful drive home. Of course, I trailed other cars with a very generous following distance, and used the transmission to slow the car in order to avoid relying on the sketchy brakes. Back home:

Image


So here's the deal: This is the interim Audi. My dad will be paying the parts, and I will be her caretaker. It is to be used when any of the other daily cars are down for lengthier repairs, so there are a number of issues/maintenance items that need to be addressed.

Immediate Issues
- BRAKES!!!!
- Seized brake proportioning valve (I suspect this is also why I can't get the rear brakes to bleed enough that they engage)
- Odometer is stopped @ 205k
- Rusted brake lines
- Gas gauge pegged at full
- Seized e-brake cables (calipers seem fine)
- Dying blower motor
- 3/4 Window regulators (surprise, surprise)
- Rear diff leak
- Minor unidentified oil leak
- Torn CV boot

Maintenance (unknown service history)
- Spark plugs
- Oil change/filter
- Transmission fluid
- Timing belt/ water pump
- Serpentine belt
- Fuel filter
- Air filter
- O2 sensor

Minor Issues
- Cruise control not working
- Headliner falling
- Sunroof inop
- Needs wash/polish/wax
- Interior bulbs mostly burnt out
- Some cluster bulbs very dim
- No A/C

Future Mods
Haha, get out of here. Maybe a 5-speed swap in the distant future.
Last edited by Aktapod on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby loxxrider » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:09 am

As always, great story. I am looking forward to watching as this one progresses. 5 speed swap is a necessity. You should put it above brakes on the list :)
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:52 am

Hahaha! That was actually the first thing my dad brought up, too! I think I scared off the idea when I told him it would cost more than we paid for the car.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Grillage » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:10 am

I think that V8 was at Carlisle this year. I had one the same color combo but a '93 and mostly destroyed.

good find!
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby AudiSport4000 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:22 pm

Grillage wrote:I think that V8 was at Carlisle this year. I had one the same color combo but a '93 and mostly destroyed.

good find!


Yup...Andrew Ness' old car. Great guy and pretty nice V8. Glad he treated you well ;)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby alxdgr8 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:08 pm

Beautiful car, love the color!

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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:10 pm

alxdgr8 wrote:Beautiful car, love the color!


Thanks man! I'm really digging the Ragusa Green as well! My family is not so big on the Travertine, but I think it's leagues better than the platinum grey a lot of them have.

AudiSport4000 wrote:
Grillage wrote:I think that V8 was at Carlisle this year. I had one the same color combo but a '93 and mostly destroyed.

good find!


Yup...Andrew Ness' old car. Great guy and pretty nice V8. Glad he treated you well ;)


Yep! That's the one! Perhaps it'll be reunited with him at Carlisle if I can get someone to drive alongside the 200.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:58 pm

I take it back; these pads had another solid 100k left in them!

Image

What a pain! What should have been a simple pad/rotor swap turned ugly when one of the caliper guide pins was seized. I finally got it broken loose with lots of PB Blaster and a breaker bar, then made up a device to pull the rusted pin out. Most of my time was spent thinking up how to remove the pin and finding where to buy a replacement, because they are not available separately from the caliper bracket.

I eventually found that the Volvo 740 has Girling calipers with the same pin dimensions (10mm x 60mm), and that the non-ABS version of the 740 utilized a pin of the same design! I picked that up from the local autoparts store and finally got the V8 out of my parents' garage. I'll tackle the rears next week on fall break, but I need to find a solution for the rear prop valve. Looks like aftermarket is gonna be the way to go.

Edit: Replaced broken photobucket link
Last edited by Aktapod on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby 90quattrocoupe » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:12 am

So, I am taking it that you needed pins for the G60s, and the Volvo pins fit? Need a part number for those who have the same problem. Store, brand and part number.

Thank you,
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:14 pm

Good call! Thanks Greg.

Originally, I asked the guy at the counter to grab a few candidates I'd researched beforehand until I found a match. I'm sure there are alternates that would also work, but a near-perfect match came up asking for the front caliper guide pins for a 1991 Volvo 740 with non-ABS brakes. These are 10mm x 60mm pins with a 17mm head and M8x1.25 internal threading. The only difference is that the thickness of the 17mm head is very slightly smaller than the original G60 pin, but it shouldn't affect how they perform.

Be advised that they have a replacement part on file for the G60 caliper pins on the V8/200/UrS, but these are not correct, both in diameter and length.

I confirmed that the Volvo pins are currently available from both Advance Auto and Autozone, and ended up going with Autozone's option as they were cheaper. Duralast pn# H15067
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby 90quattrocoupe » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:18 pm

Thanks for the info. Yea, I have tried to get pins for G60s before, and like you said, they were always the wrong ones.

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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby chaloux » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:26 pm

Weird, I replied but it didn't work.

In the future, remember that heat works wonders for breaking loose rusted nuts and bolts, and seized slider pins as well. Heat the outside housing and the pin should eventually be able to pulled out with some vice grips or channel locks or whatever. Just be mindful that you'll have to replace the rubber boot. In most cases even seized and rusted pins can be cleaned and reused with lots of GOOD anti seize. Dad has some concoction that I don't know the ingredients of, but it works great. Looks like a mix of copper and something else. The key is filling the new cavity and boot with anti seize so there's no room for water.

At least that's what I have found works pretty good up here in Saltanada
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Grillage » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:37 pm

I had the same problem with my Ragusa/travertine v8. Stuck slider pins made the rear brakes not work at all.
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1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby scubagli » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:41 pm

I've got two clusters both have bad parts but could be combined to make one good one.

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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby themagellan » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:47 pm

This thing is glorious! Enjoy, must sound amazing.
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:43 pm

My apologies on the delayed response! Just finished a brutal round of exams, but with that over, I finally have me the opportunity to address a few of the major issues. Steve, I may hit you up regarding the clusters if I can't get this one sorted when I take it apart.

themagellan wrote:This thing is glorious! Enjoy, must sound amazing.

It most certainly does right now! I've been driving it around without the resonator or muffler to better access the brake stuff. :) Sounds epic! And not too horribly loud.

So, plans for this week (if all goes well):
- Install new e-brake cables
- Replace rusted brake line(s)
- Install new prop valve
- Change fuel filter
- Remove and disassemble cluster to try and fix it
- Reinstall exhaust

One new thing that's come up is that when the car has been sitting for a week or so, it is ridiculously low on power until it warms up. Only until 2000 RPM, though. So you have to mash the gas pedal to keep it from dying, slowly crawl up to 2k, then it suddenly wakes up and takes off. Not sure what to make of that. There were a bunch of codes stored in the ECU that I cleared, so we'll see what resurfaces when I get a chance to drive it again.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby loxxrider » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:36 am

My initial feeling on that is it must be something fuel related.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby themagellan » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:49 pm

I'm going to go against chris and say its ignition related - Engine Coolant Temp Sensor - Or maybe an Engine Speed Sensor of sorts (I don't know shit about audi v8's) Especially since you said its warm up related. Fuel issue would be consistent I would imagine.
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby loxxrider » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:31 pm

There isn't much that pulls timing at idle though... Especially to the point where it will kill the car at idle.

An O2 sensor might cause this in my mind, or even a bad maf. The car will run on a very rich default map if the maf is bad, but it will get better with engine temp and rpm. You'd be able to smell it if that was the case.

Interesting that it's only after sitting... That would make me think something like a leaky injector.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:54 pm

I only really drive it on the weekends after it's been sitting at my dad's office for a week, so data is limited, but every time I have to blip the throttle at least once to maintain idle at startup and it'll try to die just as you set off. Full throttle will basically just maintain speed up a hill. As soon as it hits 2000 RPM, it just gets up and goes! If I park and get back in a few hours later, it's fine. It's the darndest thing.

I thought fuel first, too, but I can't see why it would drive fine over 2000RPM in that case. I'd figure it would be all across the board.

Two codes stored in the ECU stuck out to me:
00561 - Mixture Adaptation
13-00 - Adaptation Limit (Mul) Not Reached

00515 - Camshaft Position (Hall) Sensor (G40)
29-00 - Short to Ground

I'll investigate the cam sensor for sure, but I think the ticket is whatever is causing that first code. I have not had a chance to see if the codes return after a drive.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:15 pm

You might be onto something with the MAF, Chris.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby loxxrider » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:50 am

Aktapod wrote:I thought fuel first, too, but I can't see why it would drive fine over 2000RPM in that case. I'd figure it would be all across the board.


Not necessarily. The car might have a different map for over 2k RPM or use a different sensor, etc., etc. You never know.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:58 pm

True, true. Frankly, I don't have enough experience with the ABH, or really just cars in general to be anything but speculative at the moment. Fingers crossed it's something simple!
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Posts: 406
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby Aktapod » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:49 pm

My brother and I replaced the seized e-brake cables, so we can finally engage the rear brakes!

Also replaced this very rusty brake line in the rear, which I only noticed was leaking onto the subframe as I was removing it. There was practically no fluid in the line when I cracked it open. It was replaced with new 3/16" Cu-Ni line that I bent and flared with an ISO Bubble Flaring kit from Amazon.
Image
Image
Much better! After bleeding the brakes, the pedal engages about 3" earlier than before. Still a little spongey, but I only quickly bled the rears and I still have to swap the prop valve. I can finally lock up the brakes if I mash the brakes! On that note, ABS doesn't seem to work.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 (Papa Jürgen's)
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Posts: 406
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Re: Kevin's V8 Quattro

Postby PRY4SNO » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:04 pm

Yay, fix one thing find something else that's broken haha
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