Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt (For Sale)

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Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt (For Sale)

Postby Ruyck » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:20 am

Hey All, This seems to be where all the cool kids are hanging out nowadays. Some of you might recognize this car from MG. Original 20v swap done by Tim Sias back in NH. I've got some updates for 2015 so I'm picking the project thread up here.

Since Purchase:
1. 3" Turbo Back Exhaust
2. Rods (New bottom end... oops)
3. VEMS/Harness
4. V8 Coils (VC Machining)
5. RPI Equipped Willwood BBK
6. Wagner T3 EM/Tial Wastegate
7. 2B Front Lip
6. Holset HX35 - T3 .63 A/R Hot Side
Audi Expo 2015 - Picture Credit To alxdgr8 :ty:
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Audi Expo Front Shot
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Rear Shot
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Ceramic Coated Newness
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New Turbo Setup
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Next up on the agenda is a front facing IM and fuel rail from Mr. Iroz. Preview Pic.
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IROZ IM Preview Pic
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Last edited by Ruyck on Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby Ruyck » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:32 am

Since switching to VEMS the dash has always been a bit suspect. Specifically the tach with intermittent and I don't trust most of the gauges anymore. I've had the idea to install a VEMS display for awhile now. Decided to pull the trigger. I purchased an HP Stream 7 windows 8 tablet last week and got it into the car over the weekend. There's definitely some bugs to work out still but it seems to be working as intended. USB charging while interfacing with the Serial connection as well as sleep/wake have been the biggest issues thus far. The gas gauge was removed to make room for the tablet. Haven't decided what to do on that front yet. I'll either wire it into the ECU or put in a standalone gauge.

I kept the mechanical speedometer as I wasn't sure if I'd have enough screen real estate for a GPS one. Looks like there is going to be room, but I'll leave it as is for awhile longer.
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Zoomed Out
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Zoomed In VEMS
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Here's a view of the current custom interface I'm running. Still preliminary.
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Prelim Gauges
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby mushasho » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:44 pm

Like that instrumentation idea...
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby pilihp2 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:53 pm

Flippin awesome.
-Phil
87 5ktq - 20vt
91 v8 5spd - I guess I'm a masochist
05 S4 - "Daily"
16 KTM 690 Duke - 2 wheeled hooliganism

-Terrible at responding to PM's
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby ringbearer » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:26 pm

Sweet on so many levels, glad you made it over here!
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby PRY4SNO » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:09 pm

How about them gauges?! :drool:
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby alxdgr8 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:55 pm

Glad to see you make it over here Andrew!

For the tablet, I'd try an anti-glare screen protector. Might dull the colors a bit, but will make it easier to read during the day.
-Alex- @vexartmedia on Instagram
1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (MC1, GT2871R, IIc)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swap and more)
2003 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood; DD)
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby EDIGREG » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:57 pm

nice car!
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby deaner » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:51 pm

Sex! E!

Looks so good! Love the lip as well as your gauge solution man!
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby Ruyck » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:44 pm

alxdgr8 wrote:Glad to see you make it over here Andrew!

For the tablet, I'd try an anti-glare screen protector. Might dull the colors a bit, but will make it easier to read during the day.


That's the plan! With it shrouded under the original gauge hood, the glare is minimal. Certain angles are still troublesome. I'm hoping windows 8 has some auto screen brightness adjustment because night viewing kills my eyes, while just just about full output is perfect during the day.
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby Mcstiff » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:00 pm

Nice, I've thought about putting one in the binnacle too.
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby my2000apb » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:06 am

looking great as ever Andy!!
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby Ruyck » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:33 am

Got the intake plumbed up. New Iroz Fuel rail installed. New AFPR from Aeromotive. Took the car around the block a few times for the first time in two months. Running well. Having dash issues otherwise I'd have done a full pull. This thing lags like crazy. I knew there would be a difference between the K26/6 and the T3 .63A/R hot sides, but this seams ridiculous. I'm wondering what spring I've got in this wastegate.

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I experimented with the radiator shroud a bit. Excuse the roughness in the picture. I don't like it...
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I ended up going with this throttle cable kit: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JBCP32?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
Had to fab up a little bracket to hold the TB end but it wasn't too bad.

Still left on the list is wire management. Needing to run the IAT and TPS sensors to the front of the bay ruined my nice little wiring packaging. I'd used some 2x2 wireway along the fireway to keep everything nice and neat.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094JEXOW/ref=pe_385040_128020140_TE_3p_dp_1
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009DHNFOO/ref=pe_385040_128020140_TE_3p_dp_2

This worked pretty well but I think some 3" tall x 2" deep would work better for the new setup.
http://www.alliedelec.com/panduit-g3x2bl6/70326979/
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby themagellan » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:54 pm

There are so many nicely fabricated pieces on your car I don't even know where to begin. It's wonderful!

The tablets are fun for these type of things - The fitment turned out amazing.

Eager to see you work out the lag issue, but I'm sure you'll have it sorted shortly. Nice Project!
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby Ruyck » Mon May 23, 2016 8:13 am

Successful trip down to Carlisle on Saturday. Too bad the weather was so bad... The car ran like a champ even after some last minute wiring changes (accidentally pulled the rad fan wire out of the ecu...).

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4k at Carlisle
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Speaking of wiring... I've got a charging issue I'm trying to track down. I've read that it's common to need to blip the throttle to get the car charging. After removing half the dash (and installing the tablet) I've obviously removed the alternator light. From what I've read that warning light was connected to the blue wire on the small terminal of the alternator. Would this have some effect on the alternator "engaging"? Is there some way to bypass this such that it doesn't require the throttle blip?

Also, now that I've got the turbo and fueling setup more or less finalized I'm going to work on getting the tune dialed in. Quick question to start, are there any benefits to running 4 Bar vs 3 Bar on the FPR? Right now the ECU is tuned for the old stock 3B (3 Bar) FPR. Before I go much further I'm wondering if I should crank up the AFPR to 4 BAR and start from there.

Only a couple quick and easy updates. The car was towed from Seattle to Baltimore on the back of our moving truck. So It's back out east! Right before leaving I installed a cobra head turbo inlet and tied the catch can vent back to the intake. Finally no more stupid looking filter and fumes smell.

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Catch Can Piped To Intake
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Cobra Head
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby vt10vt » Mon May 23, 2016 11:24 am

Awesome seeing this car with my Holset twin :D wish I could have snagged a ride or gone out for a few pulls though!

Regarding the fuel pressure, I'd reset it to 4bar and retune after, there's no real downside to running that much pressure and you gain a lot of flow, but from experience it's going to require pretty much a full retune when you change pressures that much.
-Shawn C.
2001 S4 6spd Avant blk/blk - stock daily
2002 01E B6 A4 Built FYF, Built 1.8T, HX35 ~330whp
1989 MC-1 200 Avant- MS1 -Gone but will never forget her lessons
1987 5ktq Sedan - Best $500 beater ever
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby dana » Mon May 23, 2016 11:41 am

Good to meet you Andrew, and very nice work on the car!

For the alternator issue, you should be able to just provide the wire on the alternator with switched 12v and that will excite the coil at idle. Removing the bulb is definitely why you have to blip the throttle to get the alternator going. Why not run a battery light mounted elsewhere? Its a nice feature if you can do it.

The battery light gets switched 12v from the key on one side of the filament, and the other side runs to that exciter wire. When the alternator is not charging, that wire on the alternator is effectively a ground, and when its charging it sits at 12v. The bulb shuts off because that ground is now at 12v and there is no longer a voltage drop across the filament.
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby Ruyck » Mon May 23, 2016 2:21 pm

Great meeting you guys, sorry I had to bail so early. The weather was getting to me, heh.

vt10vt wrote:Awesome seeing this car with my Holset twin :D wish I could have snagged a ride or gone out for a few pulls though!

Regarding the fuel pressure, I'd reset it to 4bar and retune after, there's no real downside to running that much pressure and you gain a lot of flow, but from experience it's going to require pretty much a full retune when you change pressures that much.


So there isn't some scaling value that can be used to get close? Similar to what Marc had me do when the new injectors went in. I figured the new pressure would uniformly raise the fuel across the map. Obviously that's not quite how it works.

dana wrote:For the alternator issue, you should be able to just provide the wire on the alternator with switched 12v and that will excite the coil at idle. Removing the bulb is definitely why you have to blip the throttle to get the alternator going. Why not run a battery light mounted elsewhere? Its a nice feature if you can do it.


And thanks for the tip on the alternator. That follows exactly what I've read. I need to find the path that blue wire takes. I had that harness completely apart mid last year, regretting not tracing that one back. I imagined it would run along the drivers side of the engine bay and come through the firewall near the fuse box like everything else, but from the looks of it... it seams to go across to the passenger side of the car across the front... somewhere...

Maybe I will just run a dummy light. My reasoning at first was to just have the battery voltage on the VEMS display but I'm having my doubts now.
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby vt10vt » Mon May 23, 2016 2:52 pm

Ruyck wrote:Great meeting you guys, sorry I had to bail so early. The weather was getting to me, heh.

vt10vt wrote:Awesome seeing this car with my Holset twin :D wish I could have snagged a ride or gone out for a few pulls though!

Regarding the fuel pressure, I'd reset it to 4bar and retune after, there's no real downside to running that much pressure and you gain a lot of flow, but from experience it's going to require pretty much a full retune when you change pressures that much.


So there isn't some scaling value that can be used to get close? Similar to what Marc had me do when the new injectors went in. I figured the new pressure would uniformly raise the fuel across the map. Obviously that's not quite how it works.[/quote]

You can but in my experience at least you will still need to do a decent amount of fine tuning, adjust map xx% is usually enough to get it 'close enough' but not enough for it to be happy everywhere.

Again, nice meeting you, looking forward to seeing more updates on this thing!
Last edited by vt10vt on Mon May 23, 2016 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Shawn C.
2001 S4 6spd Avant blk/blk - stock daily
2002 01E B6 A4 Built FYF, Built 1.8T, HX35 ~330whp
1989 MC-1 200 Avant- MS1 -Gone but will never forget her lessons
1987 5ktq Sedan - Best $500 beater ever
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby alxdgr8 » Mon May 23, 2016 4:08 pm

I've got the exact same issue with my alternator. I think I lost the cable somewhere under the dash and it's now ziptied up somewhere.
-Alex- @vexartmedia on Instagram
1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (MC1, GT2871R, IIc)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swap and more)
2003 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood; DD)
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby dana » Tue May 24, 2016 7:55 am

I think you can just give that post on the alternator switched 12v from anywhere if you cant find the original circuit and don't need a light. Just start it up, let it idle and then jumper battery 12v to that post. I bet that will excite the alternator and make it charge. You must have switched 12v in the bay you can tap into somewhere?
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt (For Sale)

Postby Ruyck » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:14 pm

The 4000 is for sale! I'll likely regret this... but the car doesn't get nearly enough love anymore. I plan to make a more formal post in the near future.

1987 Audi 4000CS Quattro
Located In Philadelphia PA

Originally Owned By my2000apb - Purchased in 2011
https://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25432

My original MG thread is here:
https://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44093

~85k mile 3B bottom end installed in 2011
Rods And Bearings from Hank (ShavedQuattro)
ARP Headstuds
AAN windage tray
7A oil pan
VEMS Standalone Engine Management (Swanson Harness)
Holset HX35 with .63 T3 Exhaust Housing (Ceramic Coated)
Wagner Exhaust Manifold (Ceramic Coated)
3" Stainless Turbo Back Exhaust
Tial Wastegate
Dahlback Racing Bpv
Carbon Timing Cover
Iroz Motorsports Forward Facing Intake Manifold
SPEC "Stage 3+" Clutch (Resurfaced Flywheel)
EFI Express Fuel Rail
60Lb/Hr EFI Express Fuel Injectors
Aeromotive FPR
Audi V8 Coil On Plug
Wilwood front big brakes
2 Bennett Coilovers
Solid Mounts Everywhere
Rear Mount Battery
Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
Recaro Seats
Sport Quattro Front Grill and Headlights
2 Bennett Front Lip
Aero Catch Hood Pins
Technomagnesio Wheels
Tablet PC Dash
Momo Steering Wheel
Quattro Script Rear Seats

I'm sure there's another 20 things I'm forgetting...

The car is solid. Pulls like a train. Tuned originally at Addict Motorsport Design in Seattle on the old K26/HX35 Hybrid where it made 310 horsepower and torque. We were pretty severely limited by the tiny hot side housing. The car hasn't been put back on a dyno since swapping to the larger housing. The engine setup should be happy for more power, but it's already pretty silly. The exterior isn't perfect, the hood and rear bumper could use a re-spray. There are some rock chips, etc. As is, this car could be driven and enjoyed every day, and with just a bit of work, this could be one of the nicest 4000's out there.

PM me if you have any questions to set up a viewing.

Here's a couple pictures from an event a few months back.
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Re: Andrew's Audi 4kQ 20vt

Postby k2exoman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:32 pm

Such a good looking build.
GLWS.
1995.5 - UrS6A: RS2'd, 7A'd, FMIC'd, BBK, Exhausted, Koni'd
1991 - 200 20v: Eiche Stage 1 chip, Exhausted, Koni'd
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