Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

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Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:08 am

Hello motobrethren
It's time to get my project on the pages. A BN VW TDI long block(AHU) came up for sale in '08. I scarfed it being a "diesel only" guy with the intent of putting it in some kind of undetermined project.


I've been swapping drivetrains in and out of VW's for 35+ years; the bodies get rusted out or crashed and then it's find another good body & repeat. I've had been exclusive to VW's all this time save for 2 Chevy trucks ; a '58 Apache and a '71 plow truck. I received my first beetle; a '62, for my 12th birthday(thanks Mom). It was my field car. I've owned over 30 beetles, 4 squarebacks, a fastback, a '65 kombi, 3 german rabbits, loved my diesel vanagon, with my favorite cars being the 4 Dashers.
I would put 250 to 300k on each and really preferred the VW B1 inline setup.I loved the German/A2s as well. The '85 Jetta diesel was 1 of the best cars VW ever made IMO; retired one @420k, 44 mpg every tank. I was never interested in Audis as they were too $$$ and had way too many accessories, too much $tatu$/comfort/complexity compared to a VW. I took my son to Germany in '98, we visited all the car factories and auto museums we could in 3 weeks. Our favorite was the Audi factory in Ingolstadt. Unbelieveably complex factory; beautiful. We did the tour 2x. Back then a customer could watch their car built and drive it out the door. Anyway like I said being a diesel only guy, I always dreamed of an AWD diesel, built simply.
I assembled a '99.5 Jetta TDI in '08 that needed a motor, and did a lot of mods to it; 149hp/268lb/ft, gets 48 mpg like clockwork. Even with the Shine suspension it's just bland & Honda-like, handles like her a** is too fat, I'm sorry to say.
FF to 2010 when I discovered the 01A trans with its universality of engine choices; the B3 with its inherent rust-proof, safe, innovative/timeless body, the existence of Motorgeek, and the project was born.
I found a factory mechanical TDI injection pump in Berlin and my GF's 82 year old aunt brought it home for me through Zlinn, Czech Republic.


B3s have become very affordable and I bought my first one; an '89 80q last fall from a fellow Geek. "The Shady 80"

I got it running well, then found the project car in CA.
A 1991 80q http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php? ... er+blue+80

I've always done my own car work and have never had a garage; this time I have a shed roof kind of space and an old pool shed for cover as well. Working outdoors adds a sporting nature to the challenge of the swap! Thanks all who've put up with my questions and requests.
I want to make the car simple to maintain so the power steering and ABS is nixed as well as the driver electric window changed to manual regulator. The other list of parts includes JH shifter, EFI solid shifter linkage, intercooler & tubing, 034 Delrin CA bushings, 034 solid subframe mounts, fuel filter bracket, rebuilt Bilsteins HDs, A4 v6 trans., Urq rear diff., solid rear diff mount, rear driveshafts w/ 108 inners for the Urq diff., Spec. Stage 1 clutch & pressure plate, TDI starter, K14 turbo. I'm using stock 4 cylinder parts for the radiator & motor mounts.
One of the major parts to this swap is creating a 4cyl quattro subframe that only exists in EU. (European only part)

I've decided to use stock 4cylinder mounts which are part of the subframe on B3 4cyl. cars. I cut the engine mounting "tabs" from a 4 cylinder subframe and am having them welded them onto a 5cyl quattro subframe. (I haven't a welder)

4 cylinder subframe

5 cylinder quattro subframe

Measure twice ; weld once.


Revised subframe (crappy pic, sorry)
The NG came out this summer.

First step on the new motor was changing the oil pan. I had 2 choices; stamped steel, or A4 1.8t cast aluminum and I went with the steel. A little less capacity but more road hazard proof; a problem where I live.


I used an oilpan windage baffle integrated in the gasket for the bottom end. Last year I parted my B4 Passat TDI and kept the 1Z motor/trans. I'm using all the ancillary stuff from the old over to the new. This ran beautifully with 215k when I retired it



I'm painting the tin along with the "new" subframe with Urethane moisture curing paint & primer from http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; recommended by a restorer.

The next step was installing the crank gear.

This required the purchase of a Crank Yank to hold the gear while tightening the bolt. It's well made and works very slick.
That's the wrapping they sent it in. Hmmm.

The timing belt is on.

The injection pump is on , pump timing set. Stock 80 2.0 flywheel with spec Stage 1 clutch installed.

The engine is ready to go in at this point.
I had to modify the lower belt cover to allow the use of a serpentine pulley on the water pump.
There are many other other details to come.
Last edited by oil_me on Mon May 22, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:09 am

The manual VW Fox rack is installed. It is literally a bolt-in swap. These are the required parts needed from the donor;

Image

The rack of course; I found one with 40k, the connecting shaft to the steering column, the steering damper with bracket(not in pic) and the rubber shaft seal. The Fox seal fits neatly inside the seal on the body like it was made for it.

Image

The left engine harness must pass between the steering damper and the steering rack. I had to use a heat gun to make it flexible enough. I cut away most of the ABS brackets for essential access.

Image

I cut apart and used parts from the flexible coupling on the stock rack. Using 2 couplers if possible, you need the 2 loose spacer sleeves as the others are riveted and inseparable. The steering shaft is telescoping and takes up any extra slack from the length.

Image

When I drive it I'll relate how it feels as far as effort, stability, responsiveness.
Rich
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby bangoman » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:14 pm

Thanks for sharing. I had an A3 TDI 2.0 when I lived in England. The TDI is awesome as is quattro, so your 80 will be double awesome! Also props for never having a garage and doing all this stuff outside.
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby PRA4WX » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Love the tdi project! 8-) Keep it coming!
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby BlackBox » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:37 pm

I love the purely-mechanical aspect of your project. Don't get me wrong, I love electronics too, but in this day in age with our society so heavily relying on electronics (and those damn smart phones), it's nice to see someone simplifying things a bit.
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:09 am

BlackBox wrote:I love the purely-mechanical aspect of your project. Don't get me wrong, I love electronics too, but in this day in age with our society so heavily relying on electronics (and those damn smart phones), it's nice to see someone simplifying things a bit.

In 2 weeks I'm gonna crest the half century mark with a fused spine, numerous nagging sports/work injuries, degenerative discs etc. I want to own cars that are familiar, and simple to work on. I will never be stuck in the middle of nowhere with defective engine electronics. The most important thing is I really like working on the B3s; they're simple. I can pull any strut assembly out in 10 minutes for instance. Heck, I like just staring at them.
Rich
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:46 am

I want to thank everyone who's helped with parts, ideas, info, and other support; Issam Abed, Scott DeWitt, RyanP, Jack Dean, Eric P from VWParts, Chris Semple, Aaron Orsinger, Jeremy & Sam @ 034, and to J. Jordan (80qtdi) for the inspiration from his thread on TDIClub.com. I couldn't have conceived this project without the posters on these forums who through their sharing of their projects; most way more complex than mine; gave me the courage to start & continue with this project. I mean to say thank you all most sincerely. It's what makes our little part of the world here so great and comfortable to hang around in.
Rich
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:46 pm

Update: installed manual steering rack in the above post and replaced the 2 front struts with Bilsteins. The front inserts have a potential problem where they don't center properly in the concave "bowl" at the bottom of the housing.
Image
I wanted to put something in the housing to help center the cartridge so this is what I did; I took black plastic flexible pipe that was just larger than the housing opening. I cut the pipe diagonally down the side be able to wind it up ; fit it in the hole and it re-expands. the cartridge fits inside this and eliminates side to side clearance. Others have used radiator hose.
Image
I also drilled a small hole in the bottom of the each of the housings to allow trapped water to escape instead of building up and freezing.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby my2000apb » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:49 am

cool more oil burning!
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby Highlander » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:13 pm

Cool.

I have all the parts to do the same project, but If I go ahead it will retain
the ecu.

What flywheel did you end up using?

Sweet build....keep the pics coming

Cheers,

Craig.
Highlander
 

Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:50 pm

I'm using an '89 Audi 80 4 cyl flywheel. I'm not sure how much it weighs but I'm pretty sure the diesel 4 cyl flywheel weighs more if you can access one across the sea. I might do this for the next swap. I installed a SPEC disc & pressure plate, Stage 1 with the organic material, not Kevlar. You'll need a TDI starter as well. I have all the parts to complete this; just waiting on the tranny and some custom rear axles to start full bore on the rest of assembly. This is the most involved swap I've done to date and it's a little overwhelming. I strive to do one engine task and one for the body each day. Thanks for the interest guys. I'll try to keep up with the posts as I move along.
Rich
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby ur20v » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:04 am

Very cool project! I like the EMP/doomsday-proof nature of it.

About that Fox steering rack - how many turns lock-to-lock is it? Faster than the power rack?
2005 A4 Ultrasport - K04'd, AEB head, GIAC tuned, still pokey
2001 TT 225 quattro Roadster - Stage 2+, looking for B&M shifter
2001 S4 - Tial 770R'd 3.1 stroker coming
1988 80 quattro - 4.2 powered FrankenAudi made from 13 cars and counting...
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:09 am

I'll let you know when I drive it in a few weeks or so. I'm gonna need the extra turn maybe; this car will be no boyracer; I plan on using skid plates for navigating logging roads; taller profile tires etc. Utility for the long haul. I'm using a three spoke S2 steering wheel; same diameter as stock. Hope it has the leverage I need. I will do a big update very soon, much progress.
Rich B
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby 80qtdi » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:00 am

I had originally thought about making my 80 into more of an off-road car, but once I got the engine going and felt all the torque/power it generated I changed my mind. Thanks for the recognition above, I must have missed it when you posted it earlier. Can't wait to see your update, maybe it will inspire me to work on mine a bit more :).

Jon
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:13 pm

This is a long promised update. As of this post; I'm about ready to start the car this week. The engine is in; the fabbed mounts fit perfectly.
The '98 A4 trans. needed 5mm shaved off two of the mounting bosses; one post on each side for the subframe mount. I used a Dremel and hacksaw and a bucketload of trepidation. For some reason they came out great.
Image
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I installed 034 control arm bushings in all corners and while I'll say they went right into the arms without issue; mine required HOURS of grinding to fit in the radius of the cavity they fit into. I'm not sure why I've never heard this discussed or is it. after I pressed the bushings in; the inner sleeves would bind when installed. I bought a set of parallel reamers to correct that. They're pretty cheaply machined but worked very well.
Image
Image
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I need a lift pump to supply the IP with a lot of fuel to cool the 12mm pump head. I mounted a Walbro pump on a sheet of SS similar to the original pump mount plate in the same position. It's soldered and heat shrink tubed to the original wiring with a modified fuel pump relay.
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ShavedQuattro AKA God with a capital "G" made the rear driveshafts to fit the 3.89 rear diff.
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Here they are assembled.Image
Here is a pic of the homemade spacer to mount the unusual diff in this car

Image
The rear diff before absorption. I used the extra primer to paint weird sh#t everywhere.
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I pulled the unleaded flapper out of the fuel filler with one arm of a slide hammer.
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New shifter parts installed; I painted the tube and drilled a tiny hole in the coupler set screw for a piece of safety wire.
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Here is a gaffe I'm forced to share; it took me all day to correct it. It's been a year since I took the front end completely apart but still; little excuse.
Image
I needed a new throttle cable as the diesel version is a different length and a different end on it. I pondered buying one from the EU but decided to re-engineer the original. First off you can't remove the cable without destroying it; so I modified it in the car.
Image
First clipped off the end; pulled the adjustment housing away from cable easily; didn't have to cut it open; with a perfeclly clean end on the cut cable; I pulled the cable all the way out. I cut the cable housing to the right length reinstalled the cable and set about to put an end on it.
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I used a ball end from a cruise control lever. I drilled the piece of the lever out lengthwise; cut a tiny beveled brass plug to act as a compression fitting of sorts to adjust and lock in place the cable in the ball end.
Image
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I finished it with heat shrink tubing and a drop of epoxy.
The intake manifold is from an ALH; modified to fit my application.
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Car with bumper on.Image
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This is the car 2 weeks ago. It's now with intercooler & lines in place; I'm making brackets for it. The car is full of fuel, oil, and anti-freeze with no leaks. I want to start it and drive it with no idling time so the car must be completely done before I turn the key. It's getting close.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:14 pm

I've been driving the car for a month now and here's some impressions: the motor starts quickly with or without glow plugs; it runs excellent and smokes a bit only if I get on it hard. It is noisier than an equivalent electronic throttle-by-wire motor but it's a rasty, responsive, little monster and quickly boosts to 20+. I changed the turbo to a different K14 that came from this board via 2 fellow geeks. I got it the second time around. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43840" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
The manual steering is a little tough when stopped and could be ameliorated with a slightly larger diameter steering wheel. Any ideas? Giving up the S2 wheel would be very difficult for me though. The transmission gearing is barely appropriate for the engine though my short 17 mile commute takes me through only one 2 mile stretch of 55 mph the rest being 45 mph. (My Jetta TDI stays in 4th on this route) so it will be some time before I can fetch up the 01A TDI 5spd I wish for.
The stock front springs were too stiff for my reduced weight configuration and it sat up in the air. I threw in a pair from a 4 cyl 4000s just to get an alignment and they're still a bit too high for my needs. What I need are B3 front springs from a 4 cylinder; paint codes: silver-orange, silver-yellow, or silver-green if anyone has a pair. Using the JHM shifter and spherical coupling is visceral; it feels like chambering a rifle round. The solid subframe bushings and the Delrin CA bushings transmit vibration into the car. It's no more than I expected but maybe too much for most. This is a diesel though and diesels vibrate 10x the level of a gas car. I had a side mounted intercoler mounted down in front and off to the side with an air intake through the lower grill. I spent a lot of time on it and was thinking I had to get it all done before I could drive it. Anyway I yanked it off because it was poorly executed and became an Inter-heater so I'll work out a front mounted IC over time in the future. I'm waiting to check the mileage on this 2nd tank as the previous one didn't have the speedo gear installed yet. It's gone 550 miles and there's over a 1/4 tank left. I did the heater core after I registered it and reassembled the heater door flap upside down. So after no heat or hope of heat and the control was stuck I redid it this time correctly. It took complete disassembly down to pulling the new heater core back out did I see what my mistake was. Well, I'm sure I won't repeat that one. I pulled the unwanted A/C parts from the box the first time out but now I have really good heat. In addition I replaced the resistor block for the heater fan to restore lower speeds.
It shares daily driver duties at this time.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby pkw » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:38 pm

cool. love a rough/tough quattro diesel. all grunty, clanky, skid plated, and slighty lifted. it is just perfect.
500hp for $500? Holset + mc2 bottom + 7a head
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1534
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby PRA4WX » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:53 pm

Ha! Glad my old turbo is getting some use! 8-)
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:36 pm

cool. love a rough/tough quattro diesel. all grunty, clanky, skid plated, and slighty lifted. it is just perfect.

Yes. That about nails it down.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:18 pm

First tank of fuel with recorded mileage and it's 39 mpg. Not bad for a new motor, a heavy foot and short gears.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
User avatar
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby AudiSport4000 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:38 pm

Just now seeing this project. Very nice work! I love what you have done and all the documentation...kudos!
1986 4kq CE
1991 200 20v wagon
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:31 pm

I've had a small, persistent oil leak since the car started that has been ruining my calm and prevented me from enjoying this car. It would spread quick and was hard to pinpoint. It was coming from the oil filter area and thought first of the oil cooler gasket; turns out it was coming out of the lower rearmost oil filter flange bolt. I used a bolt with a captured steel washer under the head instead of the original shouldered bolt; it flowed slowly out when the engine was running. I removed the oil cooler from the flange and pushed it aside then ran the engine with just the filter on while using a mirror to look up under there. edit: Not cured with Lock-Tite and the correct bolts; plan B is to replace the oil filter flange gasket. The engine seems to run much smoother now at lower injection pump timing of .83mm. It starts on the first revolution at 28º so far and every other time as well. The new fan resistor failed after a week. Dunno. I tempted fate today and cranked open the manual sunroof for the first time since ownership; just the back tilt feature mind you; was all I had the courage for.
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby oil_me » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:41 am

The leak is fixed; the oil filter flange gasket was replaced. The driver's door lock now functions; as well as the power locking for doors & trunk. I hooked an air compressor to the line inside the driver door as I already had it open to fix the lock; I could pinpoint where the air was hissing out. The green plastic air line was broken inside the rubber bellows between the door and the body at the left rear door. When I pulled the rear door panel I found this.
Image

It was all soggy & nasty because the nest had clogged the door rains and was half-full of water. My continuing battle with mice has been an epic one and probably deserves its own thread in some "Mouse Kill" forum. The mice didn't chew the air line but were using the bellows as a conduit to get in and out of the door.(little basturds)
'91 80Q m-TDI DD 51.8 mpg-"the oil_can" http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1529&start=175
'89 80Q shady 80
'99.5 Jetta TDI RC3e/Shine susp. 47-52 mpg
'85 BMW R80 (exploded diagram) next in line
User avatar
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby ralleyquattro » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:23 am

How did I miss this project... love it!
Martin Pajak

http://www.quattro.ca

82 Audi Ur-q, SQ project
83 Audi 80 q, Euro 2-Door
85 Audi Ur-q, Euro mit 3B
93 Audi 90 q, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
93 Audi 80 q Avant, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
94 Audi S2 Avant, stock
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Re: Rich's '91 80Q M-TDI

Postby Hank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:36 am

Nice progress!! Glad the rear shafts worked!
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