Eric's V8 CQ

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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby A1QSHIP » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:18 am

Here is a picture of an RS2 encapsulation panel. Notice the vent to help extract air out from behind the intercooler. Might work to move more air thru a front mount radiator. Looks to me that this would be doable on a B4 encapsulation panel with a little work.
HTH, Chris
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RS2 lower encapsulation panel.jpg
RS2 lower encapsulation panel
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby Mcstiff » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:02 pm

cuatrokoop wrote:Hey Ben, thanks, but I'm not sure how Greg got his belly pan to fit, unless that bumper is some sort of hybrid. It looks like S2/euro-B4V6 lighting and the chin, but the grilles look taller and no license plate area like on a genuine Euro bumper like the one I have. The trailing edge where the belly pan would sit is vastly different than both of the US B3 and B4 belly pans I've tried so I either need to source an S2 or make something. I can cut/plas/bend/break/drill/punch/weld at work...


He modified his bumper to be more square.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby 90quattrocoupe » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:45 pm

cuatrokoop wrote:Hey Ben, thanks, but I'm not sure how Greg got his belly pan to fit, unless that bumper is some sort of hybrid. It looks like S2/euro-B4V6 lighting and the chin, but the grilles look taller and no license plate area like on a genuine Euro bumper like the one I have. The trailing edge where the belly pan would sit is vastly different than both of the US B3 and B4 belly pans I've tried so I either need to source an S2 or make something. I can cut/plas/bend/break/drill/punch/weld at work...


I do have a modified front bumper, but had the B4 belly pan on the car fit with the stock Euro V6 bumper. Early on, in 1996, when I bought the car, it did not have a belly pan. Audi service personnel like to remove them and not put them back on. The car had been serviced by a dealership, til I bought it. I ordered another one and the original belly pan was superceded to the B4 one. It fit with the stock bumper til I changed it out to the Euro V6 bumper in 2001 and it still fit. I had to trim the front a little when I modified my front bumper, in 2004. But other than that it always fit.

I will crawl under the car and take a picture. Give me a couple of days.

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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby 90quattrocoupe » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:46 pm

Here are the photo I said I would post.

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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby audifreakjim » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:42 pm

Amazing. If I didn't know any better I would say that car was only 5 years old.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:48 pm

Thank you, Greg. I'll have to see what belly pans I have in storage, I think I still have a couple left. Hopefully one is from my sister's old Cabrio. I'd still really like to get more room up front, a radiator like Greg's would do that and allow me to fit my H1/H1's with out modifying them (highly preferred!), but then I'd have to buy a new radiator and move the ABH oil cooler. I still have to fix the wiring to get some more of the gauges working as well, so if I did that it would be the time to pull the nose apart...

For some reason I didn't order the offset subframe bushings when I ordered the offset top mounts, so I'm going to order those soon.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby 90quattrocoupe » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:28 pm

Eric, one of the options I thought about before having my copper/brass radiator made, was using the core from a Audi V8. The V8 core is pretty close to being the same size as the B4 core, but being aluminum, the end tanks can be fabricated to what ever you need. These B3/coupes, need some kind of custom fit radiator to work properly, with a V8. Off the shelf, does not seem to fill the need properly.

Dimensions for B4 radiator.
W - 61.5cm
H - 16cm
Depth of the flange around the radiator - 4.5cm

Dimensions for the V8 radiator
W - 62.5cm
H - 15.5cm
Depth of the flange around the radiator - 5.8cm

So the V8 is a little wider and the flange of the radiator is wider. Now some of the V8 flange can be trimmed, because it was designed to be crimped around the plastic end tanks. So the radiator can be narrowed. Now if you can find a radiator shop near you that does custom work, they can order pre-made cores. Then the end tanks can be made to fit. The fronts of the end tanks can be slopped back to clear the headlights.

I have included some pictures on the comparisons of B4 vs V8 radiators.

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In this last picture, I wanted to show you the top plate I had removed from a B4 radiator and installed on my custom radiator. This way I could us the stock to mounting points to install my radiator. In the other pictures you can see the location of the lower b4 radiator mounts. I had lower mounts installed on my radiator in the same place. So I have all stock B4 mounting points on my coupe. Oh yeah, you have to run the lower B4 cross member for this to work, but they are not hard to find.

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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby Grillage » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:44 pm

Eric, there is a slightly narrower model of radiator that I could have used that would've fit between the headlights better. I think I put the part numbers of both earlier in the thread.

I just used the biggest thing that would fit between the lights themselves. I actually didn't realize the headlights would need trimmed until much later
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:57 pm

Thanks guys, greatly appreciated. I don't think cooling will be a major problem, as the warmest I've seen was 88C in the warmer months when I first got it. Autocrossing will be the real test. There is a pretty good radiator shop here in town actually, and honestly I could have one of the welder/fab guys at work help me fab up and weld end tanks onto a core. I could also pull the current radiator and have the tanks modified for headlamp clearance. I'd mark the spots, cut them out and take a piece of aluminum conduit (sliced) and weld it in for a concave section. I'd like to think that the half-round profile would only create a minor flow impedance with minimal losses.

Also, I had three "sound damping pads" as Audi calls them, in storage. One was from my old '88 90. The other I believe to be my original CQ piece. The last one I found carried an 8A0 prefix. Bingo. Lists as a 1993-1995 90/90Q pad. It must have come off the Cabrio or my college roommates old '95 90q. Regardless, it has the NACA ducting like Greg's so I'll give it a go.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:37 pm

Going to get this thing dyno tuned down in C-bus before auto-x season (well, MY auto-x season) begins. A company down there is willing to work with VEMS, and they have an AWD dyno...
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby gabriel.b » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:13 pm

cuatrokoop wrote:Going to get this thing dyno tuned down in C-bus before auto-x season (well, MY auto-x season) begins. A company down there is willing to work with VEMS, and they have an AWD dyno...


Who is that?
Gonna need them in the future
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby Grillage » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:23 pm

I could never find anyone here local to tune it when I had it.
I tried Turnin Concepts and they looked at the car and never called me back.

Marc seemed to think I wasn't likely to be leaving much on the table performance-wise - my gripe was always the hard starting when cold and idle tuning and such.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:41 pm

gabriel.b wrote:
cuatrokoop wrote:Going to get this thing dyno tuned down in C-bus before auto-x season (well, MY auto-x season) begins. A company down there is willing to work with VEMS, and they have an AWD dyno...


Who is that?
Gonna need them in the future


Crucial, they are pretty active on FB. My buddy had his blown 4.6L 6spd Mustang tuned there, and is likely going to get his Coyote GT 6spd tuned there as well.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:48 pm

Grillage wrote:I could never find anyone here local to tune it when I had it.
I tried Turnin Concepts and they looked at the car and never called me back.

Marc seemed to think I wasn't likely to be leaving much on the table performance-wise - my gripe was always the hard starting when cold and idle tuning and such.


He's never tuned with VEMS before, but has used several other stand-alone systems and is willing to use VEMS. The whole point will be to make sure the car is making the most safe power possible, and potentially have two maps (warm/hot and cool/cold weather). It tends to be rich at any given time, based on what my nose can tell. He may be able to help with part throttle and transitions as well.

Plus, I'm curious to see what it is making...
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby Grillage » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:17 pm

Me too! Post results before and after the tweaking if you can

It definitely needed a cleanup of the tune
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:09 am

So, I'm working in VEMS trying to get this thing to start easier. I've decreased the cranking, afterstart and W/U enrichment curves, but it still starts hard and has to idle for a bit before you can rev it w/out almost stalling.

Before, with a stone-cold engine (& therefore coolant temp) I'd have to give it probably close to 90% throttle, then it would rev up to ~5k almost as soon as it caught, and puffed a big stinky fuel cloud (NOT oil smoke, I know the difference). As I said above, you'd then have to let it sit and idle for a few minutes to get coolant temps up.

I have not messed with the Priming/Cranking/Afterstart setup. I've attached a screenshot of that window. I can attach the curves as well, if that would be of benefit.
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prime-crank-afterstart
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:58 am

More screen grabs
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warm-up enrich.jpg
warm-up
warm-up enrich.jpg (186.56 KiB) Viewed 2722 times
afterstart enrich.jpg
after
afterstart enrich.jpg (176.72 KiB) Viewed 2722 times
crank enrich.jpg
crank
crank enrich.jpg (169.61 KiB) Viewed 2722 times
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:40 pm

So...no one had any suggestions...

Anyway, I found a couple of Nesbitt's files for his ABZ'd B4-90q (one from January 2017), and those screens are all vastly different than mine. I'm going to try some of his settings this weekend.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby lorge1989 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:20 am

When idling cold and you try to rev it up, do you stab the gas or very slowly bring up the revs?
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:33 pm

You have to feed it throttle slowly, and even then it will try to stall when it is cold after you let off, it just can't compensate that fast. Once coolant temps come up to around 50C it gets dramatically better. I think the curves are just that far off. Nesbitt's are all hugely different for his ABZ, both in a 2016 file and the 2017 file I found. His maximum values are about half of mine, and continue on down. I'm hoping that his numbers help get me in the ballpark...
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby Grillage » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:40 pm

It's very possible that Marc shipped the ECU with a better configuration for those things than I ended up with after screwing with them

Attached is the oldest config file I can find from him - from Feb 2015
Don't use the whole thing because there were most definitely tweaks for the better between then and now but maybe those couple maps have better setups
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startup-v3.3_u009476-2015.02.01-16.08.32.vemscfg
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:41 pm

I got it to behave better, I didn't have to touch the throttle really at all when I left work today, but it still cranks for a while before it catches. I used some of Ben Nesbitt's numbers (namely those for the curves).
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby Grillage » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:43 pm

Great!
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:04 pm

Yes, I just need to understand what all of the different parameters are actually doing to affect the different phases of starting...This is all prep to getting it on the rollers, well, that and more shake-down miles.
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Re: Eric's V8 CQ

Postby cuatrokoop » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:34 pm

So, other than a long crank time (which I've come across multiple times in searching for VEMS starting information), it starts pretty well now. Also, found a couple things that needed dealt with before they were a problem. Getting brakes figured out, because this thing needed tires about a year ago based on how much sidewall cracking there is. I need to get the suspension pulled from 000292 so I can fix it and put it in the 4.2. Then I can put on my 17's with 245's. With factory suspension, those tires will definitely rub.
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