1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:48 pm

This car has been running solid
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but in my search for a newer DD car driving other sporty cars has got me noticing that this car needs to be “tightened up” in a few areas . There are some things that just make it feel “old” that I think I can get rid of . So that and a little faster .

So there are a few things I need to do . Here is the list I can come up with

•shifter
The shifter length and feel is ridiculous so I will do a short shifter, and maybe some bushing work if needed on the “ball and cup” portion of the linkage .
•brakes
I have at least one warped rotor so I would like to get new rotors for the g60 set up but I have no idea the part number or where these came from
•rear brakes
•control arm bushings
•windshield wiper motor

I also have a parts car that I picked up to use as a donor for anything I need for any and all of my URQ’s
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1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:04 pm

I’ve been running my boost off nothing but spring pressure at about 14# so I think this might be a good starting point, the spring sill provide ~60-70% of max boost and the n75 can do the rest .
So Today I before work screwed around a little trying to enable the boost control so I can turn it up finally to where it should be . No dice yet as I can’t get the n75 to click or do anything . Yet if I plug it in it goes for full boost and does not allow the wastegate to open .

My goal was to start by going strictly off duty cycle for now , with the RPM vs RefDC table . that way I can slowly move the DC up and figure out what given duty cycle curve I need to reach my target boost of around 20 psig

I have the N75 plugged in and using the TiAL MVR wastegate , n75 line running to one of the top air ports (nothing on the bottom air ports) and the other n75 “Vent” port (that normally would tie into the urs4/s6 intake elbow ) to atmosphere .

Now I went in and set P,I,D to 0 and changed the boost control to “RPM/gear/speed based” so I can use the RPM vs RefDC chart to run the boost.

with the n75 vented to atmosphere I should hear it clicking but I don’t hear anything if I try driving the car like this , the boost will go way past spring pressure as if the n75 is not interrupting /venting the signal from the manifold reference line . It acts as if the n75 is requesting full boost . I went in to look at my settings , and I don’t see anything off but I must be missing something . I tried 0% duty cycle then tried 100 to make sure it is not inverted somehow
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Don’t know if those pictures will even be legible
I know some outputs in VEMS there is a way to “invert them” but I could find that box for this one
On the way home from work I unplugged the n75 and still had high boost instead of spring pressure . So the failsafe should be opposite of what I am seeing . I basically have boost pressure holding the wastegate shut . Maybe it’s my plumbing .
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Go figure in a 3600 sq ft shop of Audi cars and parts I don’t have a single spare N75

I may try to reconfigure my wastegate to this (shown below ) I don’t understand why the bottom line , direct connection to lower air port is needed but even the TiAL instructions say to use the bottom ports
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby audifreakjim » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:56 pm

I always preferred adding boost to the upper chamber over cutting off the supply to the lower chamber. Try out the industrial valves like Marc offers instead of the N75.
http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/produ ... ucts_id=97

If you are in a pinch, I think you can get them at Grainger.

Definitely test your existing valve with some compressed air and a 12v supply to make sure the air is going where you expect it.
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1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:20 pm

I’m going to try one ... I’m glad to hear someone else is doing it that way because
adding boost to the top chamber seems to make way more sense to me versus the n75 style of control but what do I know .

So what I have right now is this configuration. This is how I was able to get the spring pressure for break in. This configuration below , N75 but boost control off, then added the appropriate amount of springs to raise the boost to where I wanted .
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I have nothing going to the top chamber and the plugs out , and

So to clarify just to make sure I’m understanding it right , the N75 interrupts/dumps the air from the bottom chamber to close WG & increase boost, or it increases pressure In the lower chamber to work against the spring and open WG/lower boost.
But with the industrial valve , it’s the other way around, so I will add pressure to the top chamber to see higher boost ?
Which means I will likely need to reconfigure my springs in the WG when I switch that around .
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby audifreakjim » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:58 pm

Both can operate either way. It's all about how you have it plumbed and configured in the ECU. But for a factory car, your statement is correct. "the N75 interrupts/dumps the air from the bottom chamber to close WG & increase boost, or it increases pressure In the lower chamber to work against the spring and open WG/lower boost. "

It sounds like VEMS is inverted. You can change it under Outputs -> Assign Output Channels
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:25 pm

Ok I will take a look at it today.
Thanks much for your help!
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1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:45 pm

Ok got it .... so quick test on the way to work, at around 27 Duty cycle across the board with my setup , that gets me about 250 KPA . I’m not sure if I should go any higher than that yet so I bumped it down around 20% dc and that’s getting me roughly 230 kpa (around 20 psi) It should be a safe level for this car I think. So I will try and keep it here , will mess around a little with getting that Duty cycle , I will have to figure out how to enable the closed loop boost control with the PID numbers . Never done that before so no idea where they should be .
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Hey Jim random question but if you had to get a new car right now for driving and enjoyment ... would you still go manual or DSG? We have similar interest and I now you’ve driven the shit out of both ...
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby varia » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:32 pm

"Hey Jim random question but if you had to get a new car right now for driving and enjoyment ... would you still go manual or DSG? We have similar interest and I now you’ve driven the shit out of both ..."

hint: the dsg is an rs3 :)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby audifreakjim » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:02 pm

Depends. The DSG in the Rs3 is good, but it's still no PDK from Porsche. A flat 6 Cayman PDK is pretty damn cool, but get into a GT3 with PDK and it's just orgasmic.

I think the PDK cars are a great match to their chassis, but the RS3 doesn't feel aggressive enough to me.

Hard to explain, sounds like you just need to go drive some cars :)
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 pm

Yeah sometimes I watch theSmokingTire and that guy talks about how the PDK is far ahead of Lamborghini and VAG dsg. But I think there is a portion of that manual vs DSG argument that I can only answer for myself. I'm pretty die hard manual so far.
I think you're right, I just need to drive some more cars... So far I have test driven a few cars. Rs3 stock, RS3 tuned (APR), I drove a brand new STI too. I would like to find a 996 turbo I could drive as well but they don't pop up much around here as well. or even a 997 n/a
At first the DSG is really impressive how fast the shifts are because I realize its not "how much faster it shifts" its the fact that the boost never drops off, compared to my car the entire process of shifting and the consequential loss of spool and how long it takes to get it back is where it really shines. But for daily driving it feels like something is missing.
The only two cars I have that I drive right now is the URQ. Getting out of the 83 there are some things that will always feel better about a new car no matter what but none of them feel as small and agile for sure.
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1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:52 pm

Working on a couple things here . I can’t keep the line to the boost gauge connected , so I am trying to come up with a solution. Where the poly line meets the vac line it slides out .
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I could run a compression fitting at the manifold but I’d have to order it . For now I am going to try this .
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It's ugly but it isn't going to blow off all the time.

Regarding the spring pressure. I am looking closer at the logs- its a real pain to change the springs out but I am thinking I may possibly need to go to a lesser "base" pressure, but not sure yet. I'm thinking that because I want to keep the N75 in a good control range. with the 7163 and the springs I have in the WG, at a flat rate of 20%DC boost is sparting around 230 creeping up to 250 KPA or higher in the upper RPM ranges. I'm wondering if putting in a combination of weaker springs (or just one spring instead of two ) would make it so that I could be at, say, 40 or 50% DC, more in the middle of the range so it has farther to open and close if it needs to.
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby SEStone » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:29 pm

Super glue the nylon line into the rubber hose.
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1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:48 pm

Finally got around to doing some maintenance .
First got my passenger wheel bearing done .
While I was doing that I tried to see if I can find out what brake rotors this G60 setup uses so I can replace them . One is warped . Anyways no dice , I took a wire brush to it and there is no PN anywhere on the rotor. I’m wondering if I know the size and offset of the rotor maybe I can use that information to figure out what it is .
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This car sounds amazing but it’s so damn loud I feel bad starting it at 4AM every day , so I have been wanting to install a resonator/second muffler .
I used a Borla XS muffler , it’s still a straight through. Single 3” offset in , center out .
It was difficult to fit in the given space so I had to take standard mandrel and make a little
Tighter “S” out of it .
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Going up over the rear subframe .
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This is like revision 2 of my exhaust . The last thing I need to do is I want to replace the single tip with a dual. All I have is 3” , I think maybe a dual 2.5 or 2.75 would be a good fit but I made it out of 3 to see what it would look like .
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I made a little tool so I can flare the ends just a bit . basicslly just a billet cone. It’s pretty subtle but I will notice . Saw it on a Porsche once and have wanted to try. I will end up cutting them down
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Not sure if it will be too big looking but it fits on the bumper cutout . Here it is with a b3
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby DE80q » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:10 pm

My 3" exhaust was done with a vibrant bullet resonator, 1/2 of a borla XS muffler, and a magnaflow dual 2.5" "X" muffler. Comes out of a pair of 2.5" tips and is pretty quiet. Very little drone on the highway, but makes glorious noises when getting on it.
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Re: 1983 URQ Alpine White/Mocha 20VT / VEMS / EFR

Postby Afterthought » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:34 pm

DE80q wrote:My 3" exhaust was done with a vibrant bullet resonator, 1/2 of a borla XS muffler, and a magnaflow dual 2.5" "X" muffler. Comes out of a pair of 2.5" tips and is pretty quiet. Very little drone on the highway, but makes glorious noises when getting on it.

Yeah mine is a little quieter than I expected but I think it sounds much more “refined” not just raw like it was before . Haven’t heard it from the outside yet but I bet it sounds good , I’ll need to get a flyby sometime . I was trying to find some sort for mic setup I could film with that plugs into the iPhone port .
I feel like I can tell a little bit with the difference in back pressure and I think I need to continue with turning the boost up .
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